☣ Coronavirus ☣

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Hally said:
On a practical level my mum is 81, I live over the road from her to look after her, and she is currently totally isolated. How long can I keep her in emergency mode? Isolate her totally hoping for a vaccine? Live possibly the last year or two of her life alone? Or risk the virus even though I've seen what an awful way to die it is?
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You are right that social/self isolation *is* mentally challenging, despite some of the memes and comments I've seen on FB, but the alternative seems A LOT worse.
 
Hally said:
Looks wildly optimistic to me and sure could be picked apart. At a glance suggesting the curve is flattening because the vulnerable dying first is nonsense, only a minuscule percentage of the vulnerable have died.

Would love it to be true though
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Looking at the figures it seems like it’s mostly the vulnerable though, unless I have understood you in a different way

Most deaths have been among the elderly. Figures released by NHS England show more than half of deaths have been among people aged over 80.
And fewer than one in 10 of those who have died have been under the age of 60.
Chart showing the majority of deaths have been among over-60s
( above from BBC )

Bracing myself for the Care home deaths to come through.
 

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Hally said:
On a practical level my mum is 81, I live over the road from her to look after her, and she is currently totally isolated. How long can I keep her in emergency mode? Isolate her totally hoping for a vaccine? Live possibly the last year or two of her life alone? Or risk the virus even though I've seen what an awful way to die it is?
Click to expand...

I agree. It is pretty hard. my mum's been alone for 5 weeks and struggling a bit although she would never admit it. silly whatsapps and stuff help a lot I think. saw her through the window very briefly yesterday when we got locked out (duh!) and had to get the spare key from the other side of town! was a bit of a faff getting a cab with all the shopping in the pissing rain but you have to be philosophical... eerie seeing a city totally deserted. strange how you can watch documentaries about ghost towns and never imagine it could happen to yours. maybe cities will become obsolete if distancing is the future... who knows? if you're in SE England, watch that debate about the 'green belt' intensify
 
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Hally said:
It's the age thing mate, a lot like my mum.are counting the clock and want to enjoy the time they have got. Their choice on the end I suppose. Just grim
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The thing that bothers me...is that no one ask the public (especially the elderly!) what they want. I'm not saying a referendum but this whole lockdown or semi-lockdown in my country thing hasn't been very democratic.
Politicians are acting on advise from medical experts, until now they did not include sociologist, economists, psychologists etc.

I think if we'd ask the 80+ people, they would rather LIVE and risk death...because death has always been part of life after all...then being locked up for the last few years of their lives.
 
Kent Kid said:
Watched an interview this morning with this guy, some interesting points.
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Definitely interesting.

Herd-immunity as a by-product has been the Dutch approach from the start.
But as soon as you talk about herd-immunity the critics are all over the places with statistics saying the government is basically killing people to reach immunity. Newsflash: people die. From the virus, with the virus, without the virus. Herd-immunity as a goal alone would flood the IC's but with social distancing (not locking the country down) and slowly creating herd-immunity while hoping for a vaccine is the best strategy we got imho.
And then there's the tough discussion if we should keep the vulnerable isolated, which is inhumane so perhaps there's a more democratic approach to that: let them choose if they want to go out, keep risky places (big shopping malls, bars, restaurants etc.) closed for them.
 
I get people saying let old people have a say, but are they going to say yes because they want to take the risk for themselves or for their children and grand childrens future prospects.

A measure of society is how it looks after it's old, infirm and sick and the sacrifices it makes ?‍♂️.

I guess it's not a zero sum game.
 
stivi said:
on the herd immunity thing....bad news it seems.
www.scmp.com

Covid-19 twice as contagious as previously thought, study finds

Each carrier was infecting 5.7 people on average, according to US researchers, who say previous estimate had used incomplete data.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
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Yeah that could be a disappointment if confirmed by other researches. If Herd-immunity is the goal....bad news.

But if you're reaching some level of herd-immunity as a side effect, while keeping below the R1 because of measures like social distancing, working in shifts or from home, no big events and isolating the vulnerable it will still help exiting the lockdowns.
 
Springal said:
Sweden has significantly higher deaths then Norway, Finland & Denmark per capita - who all locked down early. Not sure I’d want to be attributed to that strategy

www.theguardian.com

Anger in Sweden as elderly pay price for coronavirus strategy

Staff with no masks or sanitiser fear for residents as hundreds die in care homes
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Also covers this
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As I live in Stockholm I know, It's because they didn't stop people from visiting the Residential homes earlier on. ?
 
ElrowLovers said:
The thing that bothers me...is that no one ask the public (especially the elderly!) what they want. I'm not saying a referendum but this whole lockdown or semi-lockdown in my country thing hasn't been very democratic.
Politicians are acting on advise from medical experts, until now they did not include sociologist, economists, psychologists etc.

I think if we'd ask the 80+ people, they would rather LIVE and risk death...because death has always been part of life after all...then being locked up for the last few years of their lives.
Click to expand...

1. governments are elected to defend borders, protect people and provide core services. that's their job! that's why we have governments!
2. no sane politician would put out a questionnaire asking people if they want to be protected. it's non-negotiable.
3. governments are in constant contact with business and others to chart the best course. decisions like these aren't taken lightly. policy isn't a binary choice!

I get that some libertarians are suspicious of government and there is a debate to be had about what govt is for - but not in the middle of an international emergency!!!
 
Tourist said:
1. governments are elected to defend borders, protect people and provide core services. that's their job! that's why we have governments!
2. no sane politician would put out a questionnaire asking people if they want to be protected. it's non-negotiable.
3. governments are in constant contact with business and others to chart the best course. decisions like these aren't taken lightly. policy isn't a binary choice!

I get that some libertarians are suspicious of government and there is a debate to be had about what govt is for - but not in the middle of an international emergency!!!
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So on point 3....at this point our government is NOT in contact with business and other experts. I understand that in the primary phase of the emergency you need to listen to the healthcare experts only. But now, we are in a phase where I expect from my government that other experts from other fields are being considered too. That's a lively discussion in the Netherlands right now.
 
Kent Kid said:
Looking at the figures it seems like it’s mostly the vulnerable though, unless I have understood you in a different way

Most deaths have been among the elderly. Figures released by NHS England show more than half of deaths have been among people aged over 80.
And fewer than one in 10 of those who have died have been under the age of 60.
Chart showing the majority of deaths have been among over-60s
( above from BBC )

Bracing myself for the Care home deaths to come through.
Click to expand...
I think he was suggesting that death rates (and maybe numbers of infection) were down because those most vulnerable had died. Which wouldn't have any impact at all on death/ spread rates as only a tiny percentage of vulnerable people have been affected so far
 
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