The footy !!

Bez said:
Porto 2nd goal should never been allowed to stand. Ref made a cock up of the indirect free kick........ didnt put his hand up to signal the free untill the ball was in motion. Was too busy taking the ball of the keeper to give to Porto

The play should have been taken back...........
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Ref not obliged to raise his hand or to wait for people to get into position, however, there is the old unwritten rule of common sense and the ref SHOULD have allowed the keeper to get into position at least, but he didnt. Debatable free kick as not sure if it was a DELIBERATE back pass from sol!

nb this was the same ref that missed the Henry handball.
 
weloveliam@space said:
As happy as you are, you have be a tad envious of them at least being in the CL ;) (not me personally as I know what its like for LFC to do well in the competition ;))

Roll on Unirea :lol:
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mate, its a case of being a good side at the right time when the CL came into exsistance.

a bit contradictory considering its a competition where the champions are make up 30% of the entrants. ;)
 
djchewie said:
mate, its a case of being a good side at the right time when the CL came into exsistance.
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Presuming the argument is that unless a team got in first time they are at a disadvantage due the riches the competition brings, is that a fact? Are the top four all outspending their nearest rivals?

Genuine question.
 
Buckley said:
Presuming the argument is that unless a team got in first time they are at a disadvantage due the riches the competition brings, is that a fact? Are the top four all outspending their nearest rivals?

Genuine question.
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To be fair to Arsenal they are the only team in the Top 4 that wont go bankrupt. Their finances are run well and they dont overspend on players as they develop them from within their excellent youth academy.

You can be certain that Arsenal will always be in the Top 4. With the debts and overspending that both Man UTd and Liverpool have, they are in Danger of going the same way as Leeds.
 
Bez said:
To be fair to Arsenal they are the only team in the Top 4 that wont go bankrupt. Their finances are run well and they dont overspend on players as they develop them from within their excellent youth academy.

You can be certain that Arsenal will always be in the Top 4. With the debts and overspending that both Man UTd and Liverpool have, they are in Danger of going the same way as Leeds.
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total bollox. we've dealt with this point before.

united might be a billion in debt because of borrowed money, but that doesn't mean diddly squat if their asset value is 10 billion.

the problem with leeds was that they gambled more than they could afford based on what was happening at the club over the course of 2-3 seasons or less, as well as complete financial lunacy. neither liverpool or united could be described as doing anything remotely near that, nor have they proportionately spent similar money to what leeds did based on how much they 'might' earn in the next 2-3 years.
 
Buckley said:
Presuming the argument is that unless a team got in first time they are at a disadvantage due the riches the competition brings, is that a fact? Are the top four all outspending their nearest rivals?

Genuine question.
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all spending figures are generally sensationalist, i know figures of hundreds of millions are attributed to benitez, but his net spend each year is 10-15m ish, hardly big bucks really. after recouping 80 big one on ronaldo, i'd imagine his net spend would even surprise a few.

it'd be interesting to see a net spent analysis. plenty of clubs have spent money, like everton, spurs, villa aside from man city this season of course.
 
Buckley said:
Presuming the argument is that unless a team got in first time they are at a disadvantage due the riches the competition brings, is that a fact? Are the top four all outspending their nearest rivals?

Genuine question.
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pretty much. plus said sides would attract a 'better' calibre of player who wants to play in Europe's premier competition.
 
djchewie said:
pretty much. plus said sides would attract a 'better' calibre of player who wants to play in Europe's premier competition.
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i agree i suppose, even if a side outside the top 4 might have a bigger spend or net spend (not sure if there is an example) than one of the 'big 4', CL is where its at.

the only other factor to consider though is yeah sure, CL money has helped create a divide for sure, but aside from chelsea.......football creating the wealth.

liverpool for example, since souness left, we've always finished in the top 4 (one year aside) during the mid-late 90s and that was way before you got any money for it nor CL qualification.
 
grego said:
united might be a billion in debt because of borrowed money, but that doesn't mean diddly squat if their asset value is 10 billion.
.
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Asset Value is affected by Debt, thats basic economics.

You are also basing your viewpoint on the assumption that Man Utd assets dont ever drop in value.

As you well know Football is an unpredictable game and you never know whats around the corner.

My point is that if anything goes wrong for Man Utd PLC in an operating context a 700million debt will be, to put it mildly, a burden on the club and to recover will take longer.

Arsenal on the other hand have no debt to service so they will always be able to ride out any storm that comes their way.
 
grego said:
i agree i suppose, even if a side outside the top 4 might have a bigger spend or net spend (not sure if there is an example) than one of the 'big 4', CL is where its at.

the only other factor to consider though is yeah sure, CL money has helped create a divide for sure, but aside from chelsea.......football creating the wealth.

liverpool for example, since souness left, we've always finished in the top 4 (one year aside) during the mid-late 90s and that was way before you got any money for it nor CL qualification.
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@ Spurs, we're always among the top spenders in transfer fees - shame most of it was buying **** or kids with potential who we end up never playing.

i'll give our chairman credit, no massive club debt that i know of, new stadium money ringfenced. all this with a 36k stadium, a few good cup runs and the odd foray into the UEFA cup.
 
Bez said:
Asset Value is affected by Debt, thats basic economics.

You are also basing your viewpoint on the assumption that Man Utd assets dont ever drop in value.

As you well know Football is an unpredictable game and you never know whats around the corner.

My point is that if anything goes wrong for Man Utd PLC in an operating context a 700million debt will be, to put it mildly, a burden on the club and to recover will take longer.

Arsenal on the other hand have no debt to service so they will always be able to ride out any storm that comes their way.
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don't disagree generally but it's hardly affected the market value or attraction of man utd as something to own, quite the reverse in fact. that's not really basic economics!!

i just think its scaremongering. if man utd plc got into trouble (trying to think of a likely example)......then someone else would buy the club, let's say for 1 billion. the glazer's get their money to pay off their loans and that's that. where's the disaster??

not basing it on the fact that man utd assets don't ever drop in value, probably more likely the fact that they keep growing (including players coming and going).

i don't give a fcuk about us (liverpool) being in debt, but i do give a fcuk that rafa's hands are tied financially and we have no money to take the stadium forward. it has nothing to do with debt, the yanks have the money, they just don't wanna spend it. that is the crucial difference between us and united money wise.
 
Whats uniteds operating profit before player sales? Around 50-60m?

So..buying them for £1b is around 20X multiple of earnings. Which is about right from my dabbles on the stock market?

Will always be someone prepared to do that kind of business.

Put the emotion of footy to one side & it's just the same as any firm in terms of it's financial stability & profit security (prob more so - whilst it is unpredictable, try running a business at the mercy of the major supermarkets for instance, or a hi-tec industry player)

Very often in private equity bids the buyers quite shamelessly lend a sh1t load of cash from the banks & then pay it straight out in a dividend to themselves.

Philip Green took a billion out of topshop doing just this. So in a way be grateful United fans!

I really would not worry to much, the die was cast when Edwards sold out anyway .
 
russellventilla said:
Unirea are no mugs btw. Liverpool will need to make sure they don't underestimate them and actually turn up to play.

This mob hammered Ranger 4-1 @ Ibrox in the champions league this season and they beat sevilla (home leg)
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Yes the 4/1 available for Unirea to knock Liverpool out over 2 legs is a tempting offer:lol:

9/1 to win tonight and 4/1 the draw
 
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