The Euros 2012

claretclubber said:
However in Moscow, we as England fans were attacked from early morning to late evening for the qualifier Morbyd.
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I heard of some Spartak Moscow fans waiting around at a hotel down the road from me for Chelsea fans to show up before the CL Final in '08. You see, the hooligan crowd here still reveres English fans for your 1980s reputation. What these young kids didn't understand is that they'd be coming face-to-face with some 'ard 40-something year-olds... they ran in the end :lol:

I doubt they'd do the same for visitors from Holland, for example!
 
not seen or read about the panorama thing.

BUT SERIOUSLY, do people still believe what they see in those programs. they are some of the most ill-informed, hatchet job investigations you'll find in any mainstream media. i'm surprised the beeb still continues with it.

there have been tens upon tens of panorama investigations that have been shown to be absolute fcukin bullsh!t
 
grego said:
not seen or read about the panorama thing.

BUT SERIOUSLY, do people still believe what they see in those programs. they are some of the most ill-informed, hatchet job investigations you'll find in any mainstream media. i'm surprised the beeb still continues with it.

there have been tens upon tens of panorama investigations that have been shown to be absolute fcukin bullsh!t
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Casual racism or not - these folks DO have a really terrible human rights record.

Whilst this shouldn't stop you all from enjoying a harmless game of football - everyone can acknowledge that thrusting these issues into the public eye can only be a good thing.

It's like Eurovision in Azerbaijan this year - whyyy should these countries get all the tourism/PR benefits of hosting these high profile events?

I'm all for making it as difficult for them as possible.
 
Robder said:
Casual racism or not - these folks DO have a really terrible human rights record.
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They do have their social issues, but neither Poland nor Ukraine have "terrible human rights records". That statement is very misinformed and patently false!

The only stain on Ukraine's record is the recent jailing of one corrupt former prime minister by the even more corrupt current president. But overall Ukraine is actually one of the most democratic and free of the former Soviet republics.

Robder said:
It's like Eurovision in Azerbaijan this year - whyyy should these countries get all the tourism/PR benefits of hosting these high profile events?
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Because an Azerbaijani won the previous year's competition, those are the rules, and it's a friggin' music competition.
 
Doddy said:
:lol: get a grip..... banter i think you call it ...... and if Scots are bitter, you can blame your media hype..... even though its not as bad this year....wonder why ;)
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And you fell for the bait :spank:

And I think you'll find the majority of England supporters would like to see all the home nations qualify for a international tourny. Whereas year after year it's the same tired old 'anyone but England' mantra purported by the Welsh, Scottish and Irish. Get over yourselves, seriously.
 
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Morbyd said:
Because an Azerbaijani won the previous year's competition, those are the rules, and it's a friggin' music competition.
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Just because they won a friggin' music contest doesn't mean they don't have a human rights issue in the country.

The point being made was why should these countries be given the right to hold 'prestigious' contests in their country when behind the scene when the cameras have stopped rolling & everyone's gone home the troubles continue.
 
Robder said:
Casual racism or not - these folks DO have a really terrible human rights record.

Whilst this shouldn't stop you all from enjoying a harmless game of football - everyone can acknowledge that thrusting these issues into the public eye can only be a good thing.

It's like Eurovision in Azerbaijan this year - whyyy should these countries get all the tourism/PR benefits of hosting these high profile events?

I'm all for making it as difficult for them as possible.
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UEFA denies any of this disgraceful behaviour:

Euro 2012: Holland players subjected to racist abuse at training session

• Monkey chants aimed at Dutch squad in Krakow

Euro 2012 was plunged into its first racism controversy after the black players in the Holland squad were subjected to monkey chants during an open practice session in the same city where England will also invite the public to watch them train on Friday.

Several hundred people targeted players such as Nigel de Jong and Gregory van der Wiel when 25,000 spectators attended the Dutch practice session at the Stadion Miejski, the home of Wisla Krakow.

The players, on the instructions of the captain, Mark van Bommel, responded by moving their training drills to the other side of the ground. "It is a real disgrace especially after getting back from Auschwitz [the Dutch squad had visited the concentration camp on Wednesday] that you are confronted with this," Van Bommel said. "We will take it up with Uefa and if it happens at a match we will talk to the referee and ask him to take us off the field."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/07/euro-2012-holland-racist-abuse
 
Morbyd said:
and it's a friggin' music competition.
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...and a great platform to shine a light on these things.

Hell, you may be right about the Ukraine - but:

"Tymoshenko staged a hunger strike in April after photos appeared showing bruises on her body. She claims prison guards assaulted her and punched her in the stomach. Ukrainian prosecutors said her injuries were self-inflicted. She is currently being held in Kharkiv, in eastern Ukraine, where her condition is being monitored by German doctors."

Who knows what went on here. :confused:
 
AndyJB said:
Just because they won a friggin' music contest doesn't mean they don't have a human rights issue in the country.
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I didn't say they don't have problems, but I hardly think Eurovision is the vehicle for us enlightened Westerners to punish them for their transgressions!

If anything, Eurovision helped shine a light on problems due to the increased press scrutiny. One UK correspondent based here told me yesterday that he wouldn't have gotten a chance to write about Azerbaijan otherwise.


Robder said:
Hell, you may be right about the Ukraine - but:

"Tymoshenko staged a hunger strike in April after photos appeared showing bruises on her body. She claims prison guards assaulted her and punched her in the stomach. Ukrainian prosecutors said her injuries were self-inflicted. She is currently being held in Kharkiv, in eastern Ukraine, where her condition is being monitored by German doctors."
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The Tymoshenko case is a dark spot on an otherwise decent human rights record.

But the West is only making such a big deal about it because Pres. Yanukovich is pro-Russian and Tymoshenko is seen as being more liberal EU-leaning. If their positions were reversed, I seriously doubt you'd even know their names.
 
mashednlovingit said:
And you fell for the bait :spank:

And I think you'll find the majority of England supporters would like to see all the home nations qualify for a international tourny. Whereas year after year it's the same tired old 'anyone but England' mantra purported by the Welsh, Scottish and Irish. Get over yourselves, seriously.
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Really? Most England fans I know are only too quick to point out and mock the lack of presence in major finals for any of the other home nations! Is it any wonder there's no love for England from elsewhere?
 
Morbyd said:
But the West is only making such a big deal about it because Pres. Yanukovich is pro-Russian and Tymoshenko is seen as being more liberal EU-leaning. If their positions were reversed, I seriously doubt you'd even know their names.
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Really interesting perspective on how we're constantly manipulated by the media innit?

Does my brain in tbh - hard to know what to believe but you live there I guess.
 
Ali Bon Tempi said:
Really? Most England fans I know are only too quick to point out and mock the lack of presence in major finals for any of the other home nations! Is it any wonder there's no love for England from elsewhere?
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You don't know many Englishmen then! :p

Were not looking for love all were asking for is for you to wind your necks in ;)
 
Morbyd said:
I heard of some Spartak Moscow fans waiting around at a hotel down the road from me for Chelsea fans to show up before the CL Final in '08. You see, the hooligan crowd here still reveres English fans for your 1980s reputation. What these young kids didn't understand is that they'd be coming face-to-face with some 'ard 40-something year-olds... they ran in the end :lol:

I doubt they'd do the same for visitors from Holland, for example!
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Funny you mention the 1980's, as we left the underground station out into hundreds of waiting Russians, youngster kept coming upto my friend and I, firstly did we want trouble- 2 of us?! secondly "tell us about west ham in the 80's?" Well it will be a short story as I was born in 85' :D

Found a nice posh hotel a five minute walk away, as no-where was selling beer, and drunk pinks of 'old russian' vodka, with small tumblers of cranberry juice with the son of a chielf police officer from st petersburg!
 
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