POOR INNOCENT MAN THAT WAS SHOT

[stuie]

If you kill someone you need to be 100% sure that he is guilty.

And if he kills 50 people in the meantime then the police are wrong then too.

There can't be anyone in London who doesnt know about the current situation. It could be argued that not stopping for Armed Police on the underground is the same as signing your own death wish at the moment.

And I think the suggestion of SO19 not making it clear that they are infact armed is just ridiculous.

 

[djchewie]

Sorry guys, but welcome to the wild wild west! I totally not agree that shoot to kill is the way to go. If you kill someone you need to be 100% sure that he is guilty.

wanna hold a Q&A session with a suspect?

 

[Morbyd]

I agree with everyone's arguments about the police needing to do their jobs. That's especially true in light of recent events. And, of course, you can't disable a man with a bomb by shooting him in the leg.

Nevertheless, isn't it at all disturbing that the reaction to this man's death is so muted? He died for no reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time, at the hands of the people your and his taxes pay to defend you. If it weren't for the recent bombings, everyone would be up in arms... have the terrorists, in effect, gained a victory by eroding the basic fairness of London society?

Just a thought.

 

[dam0]

I'm siding with the police here. Although it is a terrible tragedy, in this current climate, officers must shoot to kill. If 3 men pulled a gun on me at short range and said anything like 'stop' then I'd do it. Not exactly a terrorist tactic to pull out guns on one person so i think i'd take a rough guess and assume it was the police! If you consider the perspective from the policemen; they are in place as a terrorist detterent and to prevent attacks where possible. You ask a patron to stop when you know they have recently left an area which is under surveillance. They run away, and for that matter, towards an area filled with people. You have to make a decision whether to let this possible threat run onto the train and activate the bomb or whether to take him down. As aforementioned, you cannot rely on a leg shot in this situation. Just imagine if that had been a bomber, you would have seen a very similar reaction when asked to stop and we would be congratulating the officers for their quick thinking. The problem with this mass media coverage is that it will cloud the judgement of officers when it comes to a 'real' situation.

Listening to talk sport last night really got on my teats. Cant remember the name of the presenter (not james w, the old drunk sounding guy), but he refused to give the police any benefit of the doubt and just kept saying innocent, shot him in the head etc.. Its one thing to have an opinion but he didnt give callers the chance to speak when they had opposing views. Just interrupting with 'I cant believe i'm hearing this'. No doubt a lot of people have similar views and will blame the police force for this.

 

[stuie]

Nevertheless, isn't it at all disturbing that the reaction to this man's death is so muted? He died for no reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time, at the hands of the people your and his taxes pay to defend you. If it weren't for the recent bombings, everyone would be up in arms... have the terrorists, in effect, gained a victory by eroding the basic fairness of London society?

The media is giving this more attention than the rest of the situation at the moment.

I think that to turn on/question the actions of the highly skilled people who are risking their lives day after day to make us safe is wrong.

At least wait for the findings of an investigation.

 

[Morbyd]

The media is giving this more attention than the rest of the situation at the moment.

I think that to turn on/question the actions of the highly skilled people who are risking their lives day after day to make us safe is wrong.

At least wait for the findings of an investigation.

I'm not making any judgements here. I can't fault the police... no one could in this situation.

But the guy's dead. He's not coming back. You or I, if improperly dressed or improperly reacting to a bunch of guns in our face, could be next.

Scary how it's come to this.

 

[stuie]

You or I, if improperly dressed or improperly reacting to a bunch of guns in our face, could be next.

I don't think it has anything to do with dress. Thousands of muslims are walking all over the place, with no bullets in their head.

Not responding to "ARMED POLICE. STOP" is stupid at all times, especially when the city is in a state of high alert!

 

[silvia]

Not responding to "ARMED POLICE. STOP" is stupid at all times, especially when the city is in a state of high alert!

stuie, the theory is that we shall stop but probably the guy was the most nervous people in the world, or a little grass dealer or just got a panic reaction.
WHen we face streessing situations we never act as we should or as we would, we always act as we could (does it make sense? In spanish definitly does)

 

[Morbyd]

I don't think it has anything to do with dress. Thousands of muslims are walking all over the place, with no bullets in their head.

Not responding to "ARMED POLICE. STOP" is stupid at all times, especially when the city is in a state of high alert!

Everyone made a big deal about the thick coat he was wearing. Nothing muslim-related

The police probably said what they were supposed to, but if I stick 5 guns in your face out of the blue, you tell me if you're clearheaded enough to understand it when I yell something at you.

Honestly, I don't want to take sides or make judgements here... it's just I think we need to be as thoughtful about this guy as we should be about the other victims of the past month.

 

[silvia]

The police probably said what they were supposed to, but if I stick 5 guns in your face out of the blue, you tell me if you're clearheaded enough to understand it when I yell something at you.

That was exactly what I was trying to say

 

[stuie]

Everyone made a big deal about the thick coat he was wearing. Nothing muslim-related

The police probably said what they were supposed to, but if I stick 5 guns in your face out of the blue, you tell me if you're clearheaded enough to understand it when I yell something at you.

Honestly, I don't want to take sides or make judgements here... it's just I think we need to be as thoughtful about this guy as we should be about the other victims of the past month.

The big deal over the thick coat was because of the temperature in London on the day. Do muslims typically wear thick coats then?

Maybe you are right about making an incorrect spur of the moment decision to run, but perhaps now the policing policy is known to all the next time that happens the 'suspect' will have the sense to put his hands up!

I actually think i'd be too scared to move, let alone run, jump barriers etc.

(I still don't understand why he run! )

 

[DJNC]

Glad it's only peoples opinions on here - As no-one except the people who were there at the time can really justify or critisice the actions taken that day.

Loss of life - Can there ever be a right reason? Should it be justified.....

 

[djchewie]

Loss of life - Can there ever be a right reason? Should it be justified.....

tell that to bin laden.

 

[wimpers]

Sorry guys, but welcome to the wild wild west! I totally not agree that shoot to kill is the way to go. If you kill someone you need to be 100% sure that he is guilty.

wanna hold a Q&A session with a suspect?

Some of the info may be inaccurate since I'm hearing only what the media tells me.

Sorry but they were suspecting him for more then 3 days, by that time they could have searched his house. If he was running towards a crowded areas hoot hem in the leg so he doesn't make it. He falls and they put 5 yes 5 bullets in his head. Sorry this is wild wild west style. So it is owke to kill 50 innocent people to prevail that one suicide bomber kills 50 other people. Don't get me wrong I'm sympathetic with you guys, hell last wadnesday i was talking to a london collegue who went back to her office in london about the attacks and she said we are waiting for the next one. Sorry but in my opinion you can not run around and shoot people because they look suspicious.

 

[Ferd]

Listening to talk sport last night really got on my teats. Cant remember the name of the presenter (not james w, the old drunk sounding guy)

I think its Mike Dickin youre thinking of.. his surname being quite appropriate I feel.

I'm with the police here too. Id even go as far as to say that if the exact situation happened again id want the officers to do the same thing.

It was a large number of very unfortunate coincidences that lead the police to believe he was a danger. Him leaving the block of flats being watched, him wearing a thick coat, him being of a dark complexion, him going into the tube and not stopping when being asked and jumping the barriers.

At the end of the day what i dont want is the police to fear what may happen to them by pulling the trigger. One seconds hesitation might be difference between them stopping a suicide bomber before it goes off, or the suicdie bomber killing tens of innocent people.

 

[Morbyd]

Loss of life - Can there ever be a right reason? Should it be justified.....

tell that to bin laden.

Come on, Chewie... Are you trying to say that, from now one, your attitude is that anyone who dies mistakenly as the police work to, admirably, protect the public is now just collateral damage?

While I mourn for the lives lost, along with the sense of security, I doubt most who died would want that change in public attitude to be their legacy.

Like I said, it's easy to take a gung-ho stance until it's you or someone you love who is the victim of an "unfortunate mistake".

 

[djchewie]

Like I said, it's easy to take a gung-ho stance until it's you or someone you love who is the victim of an "unfortunate mistake".

im just reminding people the cause (or one of them) to which the police and the other security services are fighting against.

i said before its tragic that this has happened, but it aint the 1st nor will it be the last time it'll happen.

if it were me in that situation, i wouldnt have run off, as i have nothing to hide.

 

[Morbyd]

if it were me in that situation, i wouldnt have run off, as i have nothing to hide.

All indications are that this person had nothing to hide as well. Why he ran, we will never know.

I'd freak out if a bunch of guys pulled guns on me. If they started yelling at me in a foreign language - Russian for example (I understand it fully, but it's not my native tongue) - I think I'd still run for my life before trying to figure out what they were saying.

I hope it is the last time it happens. I hope even more that no one else tries to set off a bomb in the Tube.

 

[silvia]

im just reminding people the cause (or one of them) to which the police and the other security services are fighting against.

i said before its tragic that this has happened, but it aint the 1st nor will it be the last time it'll happen.

if it were me in that situation, i wouldnt have run off, as i have nothing to hide.

We all know the reason of all this, but you seem to forget all what wimpers pointed out. Being the super police team three days after the guy would probably seem enough to know if he was or not.

You sound very brave Chewie, but I would like to see your panic reaction with 5 guns pointing your head

 

[djchewie]

You sound very brave Chewie, but I would like to see your panic reaction with 5 guns pointing your head

ill take my chances. but i wouldnt run off.

if my times up, its up!

and may i also add that a guy got stopped in whitehall opposite Downing st on thurs after the failed bombs. he didnt run off did he!