Looks like Bora Bora have a little problem

[berry]

Are you sure of that? Ever worked in public affairs? Because it is Exactly the kind of thing that would happen anywhere in Europe. Looks like a grassroots effort, but very easily could be the developer.

I totally agree with that comment... I work in commercial real estate and I know from experience (given in the US and not europe, but STILL..) that developers will do anything, including lodging complaints and even suing, to ensure that their properties get the highest market value possible.

I just think this is a commercial question and has very little to do with disgruntled average citizens. This is not an us-against-them issue no matter with whom you sympathize (locals, tourists). In a tourist resort, especially one like Ibiza, it's all about tweaking the balance and if some changes need to be made, so be it. But we shouldn't assume that because a couple of complaints pop up that they are immediately valid and altruistic, nor should we assume that there couldn't be improvements.

Agreed!

 

[McRackin]

If we are talking about people leaving at closing time, then the shops are already more than closed by that hour.

the restaurant i mentioned before closes a few hours later than bora bora!!

C) Have you been in that car park?

yes, i know it quite well. this is what i wrote in another thread back in january:

"the land (also owned by florentino) in front of the jet apartments and next to la sirena will be a car park in the near future!!"

(btw, thats were we parked last wednesday when we went for dinner at moorea )

So, you're trying to tell me that during the day, when shops are open, they are disturbed by Bora Bora? You and I both know that's not true.

do you know the story of pinocchio and his nose:

<--- boiiiiing!!

if its not true why they are complaining? es daus (the restaurant and the souvenir) has been open for many years, since 1970 to be exact, and if they say (like lots of other owners of shops/restaurants/etc of the area that i have known long before you ever heard of ibiza) that the situation is getting worst and worst is because they know its true..........

click on the 2 links (diario de ibiza) i posted before and try to translate them. as you will see they are not happy bunnies at the moment!!

 

[Morbyd]

the restaurant i mentioned before closes a few hours later than bora bora!!

I was talking about shops (i.e. traders, the term used earlier in this thread). If we are talking about restaurants, you can see where this might be a commercial issue.

click on the 2 links (diario de ibiza) i posted before and try to translate them. as you will see they are not happy bunnies at the moment!!

I scanned over the articles with my basic understanding of Spanish. Perhaps you can help me, McRackin, because I'm having a hard time picturing the exact location of Es Daus and how it could be so affected. It looks to me like they're asking for more of a police presence, which is probably sensible.

What I do know is that I've spent quite a few days at Bora and didn't notice people running around trying to scare off people a block and a half away. Also, you have to remember that there are a lot of young people staying in Jet apartments... take away Bora and Es Daus might get more customers, but it will also get just as many partygoers hanging around.

 

[McRackin]

I was talking about shops (i.e. traders, the term used earlier in this thread). If we are talking about restaurants, you can see where this might be a commercial issue.

and whats the difference? there are complains of different business, so of course its a commercial issue, but also of neighbors!!

I scanned over the articles with my basic understanding of Spanish.

did you understand these ones:
· (restaurant) people go totally f***ed up and annoy our customers, pissing facing the restaurant and taking drugs on the sidewalk. who wants to come here with their children to see this show?
· (souvenir) i feel ridiculous having to say to people that they cant piss here or take drugs there, its not my job!!
· (neighbor) when i look through the balcony i can see drug dealers, botellón till 3am and people taking drugs!!

now if you tell me that these persons are wrong: a) you havent been much at bora bora or b) your nose will be four times longer than pinocchio!!

I'm having a hard time picturing the exact location of Es Daus and how it could be so affected.

here you have the crossroad with la sirena, bossa mar, the new building and es daus:



parking lasirena l bossamar borabora
· - - - : + : - - - ·
················>esdaus l géminis



remember now?

 

[Markel]

Hy all,
I go since a long time on the island and Bora Bora is one (if not the only one) place you can still dance outdoor looking at the see, I think it's a magical place and part of the story of Ibiza. It's a shame that they will shut it down. Because this is what's gonna happen
1) Bora Bora cause the same "problem" that cause Space but Pepe ....
2) Playa d'en Bossa is one of the most cheapest place for buying a flat cause of the noise given from the airport. So people who lives there (if really any local is leaving there...)should not complain about the noise or even about the behaviour of the people. Playa d'en Bossa is not Can Furnet or Calo d'en real etc... So if you choose to live there, or take your family for a holiday there you know where you are going, you can not pretend to have the same standard of living you would have in some much expensive area!! This is just the market!! Like any other city if you leave near the airport you can not pretend to live in a quiete area!
3) The behaviour of the people is sometimes, after bora bora is closing, primitive. But this could be avoided with some more control and security. But even if it like that, what about St. Antonio where much much more local and tourist are leaving there!!!!

LONG LIFE TO BORA BORA!!!!!!!!!!
BORA BORA FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But just in case next year will be closed, I'll go at the end of september for the Space Closing Weekend and dance friday and saturday night like crazy on the table at Bora Bora like it would be the last night of the most famous Beach Bar on earth!!

Peace & Love to all Ibiza Loverz!!

 

[Morbyd]

(neighbor) when i look through the balcony i can see drug dealers, botellón till 3am and people taking drugs!![/i]

now if you tell me that these persons are wrong: a) you havent been much at bora bora or b) your nose will be four times longer than pinocchio!!

I'll admit I haven't been there at 3am... because Bora Bora closes before then! Again, if you need police or security guards to make sure crowds disperse properly, then bring 'em on! But Bora Bora itself is far enough away from that restaurant that the venue itself is not the problem. Space isn't much farther away BTW. And there are bars physically closer to Es Daus that offer 2-for-1 shots and the like... no one is blaming them for puking, pissing people!

parking lasirena l bossamar borabora
· - - - : + : - - - ·
················>esdaus l géminis

remember now?

Yes, I've patronized the shop next door many times, buying sandwiches and drinks to take with me to the beach at... Bora Bora!

 

[stuie]

Bora Bora cause the same "problem" that cause Space but Pepe ....

Exactly.

But this could be avoided with some more control and security. But even if it like that, what about St. Antonio where much much more local and tourist are leaving there!!!!

Exactly. If the guardia civil were highly visible (like they are in San Antonio this year) then this will immediately stop most of the problems that everyone is talking of.

 

[robsta]

I wonder if there is also another issue at work here...which is the popularity of Bora Bora itself.

Could it be that the increasing success of Bora Bora (this year seemed more packed than ever to me) is beginning to p*ss off the "super" clubs like Space and Pacha???

I realise Bora operates as essentially a daytime/evening bar but it could be that given it such a good vibe and free of course, more and more people are choosing to go there to the detriment of other nights...ie: people are less inclined to go and spend 100 euros all in to go to Pacha or whatever if they have had, or know they'll have a blinder at Bora.

Just a thought, but there does some to be something a little odd about the reasons so far provided for giving Bora, and not Space for example, hassle.

 

[silvia]

If you have too much cars you have to build more roads...

People complain about cars and next day they spray "NO VOLEM AUTOPISTA" to the nearest wall? If you don´t want more roads you will have more traffic jams...

Have you been in the car park behind the La Sirena department store? It is like a second runway, it is HUGE There really isn´t a parking problem.

Solution for this is simply forgetting those stupid noise restrictions after 12pm. If they let Bora Bora keep going until 6am - people won´t have to leave at the same time

THe autopista would be terrorism
Do you want to see the island split into two with a huge motorway? I don't.
And remember that the traffic jam is only two months a year


And the "stupid noise restrictions" are, IMO, a sign of civilisation, Ibiza it's not only for clubbers, people has the right of sleeping with no noise, no music, no twats missbehaving and loosing control

 

[vienna]

wow - real hot here....ehhm morbyd, how can somebody from moscow know , how the situation is on ibiza? you are there 2, 3 weeks in the year and macky is living there, so what?

 

[Morbyd]

wow - real hot here....ehhm morbyd, how can somebody from moscow know , how the situation is on ibiza? you are there 2, 3 weeks in the year and macky is living there, so what?

Of course I am speaking from my 2-3 weeks a year of experience... but I doubt Bora Bora causes any significant problems during the off season!

I wonder if there is also another issue at work here...which is the popularity of Bora Bora itself.

But this could be avoided with some more control and security.

Exactly. If the guardia civil were highly visible (like they are in San Antonio this year) then this will immediately stop most of the problems that everyone is talking of.

These are exactly two of the points I was trying to make...
The first one, I think, relates not only to the superclubs but other bars nearby and perhaps even property people. The second point I've made 3 times already!

I think I'm just like everyone else.. I find Bora Bora to be a magical place where I've honestly spent some of the best moments of my life. At the same time, you obviously have to respect people that live on the island full time.

I think the solutions, if the problems are that grave, are obvious and simple... but the feeling I got from some posts in this thread is 'the place is causing problems, gotta shut it down' and I think that's overreacting and unneccessary. I think for that reason, I might have gotten a little too defensive

 

[McRackin]

Playa d'en Bossa is one of the most cheapest place for buying a flat cause of the noise given from the airport.

nonsense. try to rent or buy a villa in the area around the airport (san francisco, san jorge) and even if its affected by the noise you will see that isnt cheap at all!!

although some of the oldest flats in playa den bossa are a bit cheaper, all the new flats (the ones next to what used to be pin-up for example) are as expensive as anywhere else on the island

So people who lives there (if really any local is leaving there...)should not complain about the noise or even about the behaviour of the people.

fantastic - another tourist who dont know the meaning of the word RESPECT. as long as you have a good time you dont care about the people around you, eh dude? then talk about peace and love!!

btw, suggesting that no locals live there shows your ignorance..........

The behaviour of the people is sometimes, after bora bora is closing, primitive.

oh really? now thats shocking!!

I'll admit I haven't been there at 3am... because Bora Bora closes before then!

then you havent seen the people who stays around there till very late so you cant comment!!

Bora Bora itself is far enough away from that restaurant that the venue itself is not the problem.

i dont know if you dont want to understand it or you are taking the piss but here we go again: add to "having to say to people that they cant piss here or take drugs there / drug dealers / etc" the fact that when people leave bora bora 99% of them pass through that crossroad (where the restaurant is), very often to go to the new parking (next to the restaurant). do you understand the problem now?

THe autopista would be terrorism

Do you want to see the island split into two with a huge motorway? I don't.
And remember that the traffic jam is only two months a year

And the "stupid noise restrictions" are, IMO, a sign of civilisation, Ibiza it's not only for clubbers, people has the right of sleeping with no noise, no music, no twats missbehaving and loosing control

no comments needed!!

Of course I am speaking from my 2-3 weeks a year of experience... but I doubt Bora Bora causes any significant problems during the off season!

after reading your previous posts its obvious that your 2-weeks-a-year experience is not enough to understand whats going on. if you were seeing it (almost) every week since it first opened many years ago your opinion about the primitive behaviour (as Markel said) of some people would be quite different..........

I find Bora Bora to be a magical place where I've honestly spent some of the best moments of my life.

me too, but that doesnt mean that i cant understand the complains of the neighbors of bora bora!!

 

[Superstara]

If you don´t want more roads you will have more traffic jams...

THe autopista would be terrorism
Do you want to see the island split into two with a huge motorway? I don't.
And remember that the traffic jam is only two months a year


And the "stupid noise restrictions" are, IMO, a sign of civilisation, Ibiza it's not only for clubbers, people has the right of sleeping with no noise, no music, no twats missbehaving and loosing control

I don´t care about "autopista". I can do fine without it. BUT

For me good and safe roads are a sign of civilisation.
For me those noise restrictions are a sign of conservatism.
For me freedom to party is a sign of tolerance and openness. Peace.

 

[silvia]

If you don´t want more roads you will have more traffic jams...

THe autopista would be terrorism
Do you want to see the island split into two with a huge motorway? I don't.
And remember that the traffic jam is only two months a year


And the "stupid noise restrictions" are, IMO, a sign of civilisation, Ibiza it's not only for clubbers, people has the right of sleeping with no noise, no music, no twats missbehaving and loosing control

I don´t care about "autopista". I can do fine without it. BUT

For me good and safe roads are a sign of civilisation.
For me those noise restrictions are a sign of conservatism.
For me freedom to party is a sign of tolerance and openness. Peace.

Your arguments sound to me like anarchism.

You talk about freedom to party and we are talking about an island where you can go on 24 hours a day / 7 days a week
You talk about conservatism with the noise restrictions and I would just call it civilisation and tolerance.

The only thing I agree with you is about the roads, but now we are back to the autopista and that's a huge controversy: Lets add extra-taxes to the Eivissencs to construct a massive motorway that would cost lots and lots of euros and would split the island and would be full only 8 weeks each year. The autopista would mean safer roads but a rich ecological area would be damaged forever. Probably you don't care, but I do

 

[vienna]

 

[Morbyd]

when people leave bora bora 99% of them pass through that crossroad (where the restaurant is), very often to go to the new parking (next to the restaurant). do you understand the problem now?

So, then you admit that the complaints we are talking about are when people are leaving, not Bora Bora operations during the day/early evening, when we all know there is no mass exodus. Good. I'm glad we've got that settled

Regarding the mass departure at late night/closing time, I've addressed this issue no less than 4 times!!! Are you intentionally ignoring my point just to continue this discussion????

Again, if you need police or security guards to make sure crowds disperse properly, then bring 'em on!

The problem is not Bora Bora itself. If people have a problem with patrons of Bora when they leave the premises, then the police need to respond. Jet should, and probably would if requested, also expand their guards' mandate to include making sure people dispersed properly at the end of the night.

I've never seen any bottle parties at night. If it's a problem with people dispersing, then require Jet to police the place better with threat of closure.

It looks to me like they're asking for more of a police presence, which is probably sensible.

'nuff said!!!

and just to add my two cents to the other discussion going on here, I'm against the superhighway. It's an unnecessary expense, not to mention a massive imposition, for the people who live on the island all year 'round.

 

[nish]

QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE

coming out of my eyes man!

 

[bazilba]

this is better than jerry springer!

go morby go morby

(like lots of other owners of shops/restaurants/etc of the area that i have known long before you ever heard of ibiza)

sorry mate but that sounds a bit like "its ma island and i'm no playin any more"

agree with nearly everybodies points about tolerance and also having the freedom to do what you want. i think everybody should think a bit more about how they behave and others how much they can tolerate 8)

 

[McRackin]

So, then you admit that the complaints we are talking about are when people are leaving, not Bora Bora operations during the day/early evening, when we all know there is no mass exodus. Good. I'm glad we've got that settled

once again you dont want to understand it and you only quoted the second part (1+1=2, you know ). what i said is..........

add to "having to say to people that they cant piss here or take drugs there / drug dealers / etc" the fact that when people leave bora bora 99% of them pass through that crossroad (where the restaurant is), very often to go to the new parking (next to the restaurant).

.......... because thats why they are complaining (you should read the 2 articles of diario de ibiza before keep inventing strange theories). if people were crossing the road without causing problems they wouldnt complain. the problem is that some people act like idiots

(like lots of other owners of shops/restaurants/etc of the area that i have known long before you ever heard of ibiza)

sorry mate but that sounds a bit like "its ma island and i'm no playin any more"

what i meant is that i know well a lot of people who are complaining (not only the ones who appeared on the newspaper). what do i have to feel ashamed of

agree with nearly everybodies points about tolerance and also having the freedom to do what you want

before coming back home i stopped at bora bora (around 3am) and believe me, people has the freedom to do what they want.......... thats why there was groups of people right now throwing all kind of rubbish to the sand, pissing everywhere and making noise. and i suppose i dont have to tell you how dirty were the streets nearby?

is that the freedom you were talking about?

 

[Morbyd]

.......... because thats why they are complaining (you should read the 2 articles of diario de ibiza before keep inventing strange theories). if people were crossing the road without causing problems they wouldnt complain. the problem is that some people act like idiots

I still find this complaint dubious based on my experience, but as you've so readily pointed out I don't spend every moment of my life monitoring the situation. And obviously anything that goes on in that neighborhood, even during the DAY is Bora Bora's fault, not Space... not people just using the beach... not the other bars around where people sit drinking all afternoon...

Well if it's sooooo bad during the day too then have Jet hire one roving security guard during the day! Add that to the extra people dispersing the crowd at night, and someone to pick up the trash, and we're done! Case closed! Problem solved! No more rampant peeing in front of your favorite restaurant!!
And if there's dealers on the street, then bring out the police!!! They've got an office about 1 block away last I saw! Those must be some adventurous dealers! Go get 'em!