Jehovah Witless Dies For Faith

Buckley said:
1. Spur(s) me on. Ha ha

2. They might well do, but I haven't been indoctrinated to think my behaviour is anything other than the mindless pursuit of pleasure so there's still no link. (Also my 'every weekend' or 'even every other weekend' days are years ago.)

3. What it did for less developed civilisations when we knew less about the world and rulers of men needed an agent of social contol is history. We're not that dim now, are we?
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2. (Did you just say mindless??!!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:) Whatever next?!

3. It's impact on civilisation is still a profound one, and the basis for the vast majority of our beliefs and modern culture. The legal system and moral tautologies, for example, can loosely be traced back to the 10 commandments. And it's not 'control', much like you'd like to get all tabloid on it, but it has a great benefit in social cohesion.

Do you think there's absolutely no co-incidence with the 'recent' (however long you want to go back) rising levels of social disfunction and increased secularisation? Why cast the massive benefits of religion enjoyed by BILLIONS worldwide aside just due to a ridiculously small % of extremist nutters?

Furthermore, who's stupider/worse off - the religious believer, 99.9% quite content in their happy existence, and not harming anyone, or the chap who lets it plague his every waking thought on an eternal mission to correct the wrong-thinkers?!
 
Dan x said:
2. (Did you just say mindless??!!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:) Whatever next?!

3. It's impact on civilisation is still a profound one, and the basis for the vast majority of our beliefs and modern culture. The legal system and moral tautologies, for example, can loosely be traced back to the 10 commandments. And it's not 'control', much like you'd like to get all tabloid on it, but it has a great benefit in social cohesion.

Do you think there's absolutely no co-incidence with the 'recent' (however long you want to go back) rising levels of social disfunction and increased secularisation? Why cast the massive benefits of religion enjoyed by BILLIONS worldwide aside just due to a ridiculously small % of extremist nutters?

Furthermore, who's stupider/worse off - the religious believer, 99.9% quite content in their happy existence, and not harming anyone, or the chap who lets it plague his every waking thought on an eternal mission to correct the wrong-thinkers?!
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Happy existence? Fear of eternal damnation? Guilt?

Historically, it was an agent of social control, now it's definitely the anti-dote to cohesion. The major religions are fundamentally contradictory - hence they divide the human race. Not to say, we won't find other reasons to be at loggerheads with out fellow man - but we should cross that bridge when we get there instead of blindly accepting fairy tales.
 
Buckley said:
Happy existence? Fear of eternal damnation? Guilt?

Historically, it was an agent of social control, now it's definitely the anti-dote to cohesion. The major religions are fundamentally contradictory - hence they divide the human race. Not to say, we won't find other reasons to be at loggerheads with out fellow man - but we should cross that bridge when we get there instead of blindly accepting fairy tales.
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People are happy. No-ones getting hurt. This remioans the state of play for 99% of followers of religion worldwide. Who cares if it's based an (what Buckley thinks is) a load of mumbo jumbo?

You're 'other reason' could easily be worse than good, no?

Do you really picture this halcyonic era where the whole world get's along and has no area's of social disagreement?
 
Go Dan!!

You're saying everything I have thought but can never be bothered to type when Buckley starts the Religion debates ;)

May God repent you for your dis-believing sins Buckers! you'll see the (holy) light one day ;)
 
Dan x said:
People are happy. No-ones getting hurt. This remioans the state of play for 99% of followers of religion worldwide
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My experience of a religious upbringing taught me the religious opiate for the masses didn't work. The Catholics that went to my local church weren't happy. They were scared (of death, of damnation, of their peers opinion of their lives) they were hypocritical and they felt guilty.
 
Buckley said:
My experience of a religious upbringing taught me the religious opiate for the masses didn't work. The Catholics that went to my local church weren't happy. They were scared (of death, of damnation, of their peers opinion of their lives) they were hypocritical and they felt guilty.
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And on that basis you're happy to ignore the good that it does?

Did they really spend their entire day in abject misery as they were chained to this rigid beleif system they were all too stoopid to escape? I suppose you were just lucky to escape it, eh?!

Do you not see the parallels to that and the beliefs of the socialist crackpots on that uther(75) place where they all see workers as miserable slaves to the system?
 
Buckley said:
I might well Miss Boo, but it won't by pretending that I know things that definitely aren't true.
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Definitely? That's a big word.

And by big I mean pretty much arrogant.

(I agre with you of course, though I might think it's within even the smallest of possibilites that there might be something in it. Can x-billion people be that wrong?!)
 
Dan x said:
Definitely? That's a big word.

And by big I mean pretty much arrogant.

(I agre with you of course, though I might think it's within even the smallest of possibilites that there might be something in it. Can x-billion people be that wrong?!)
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The possibility of creator exists. The offered explanations ARE untrue. They can't even agree with themselves. Hell exists. It's literal place, where you will go if don't toe the line. Oh, um, actually we made the bit up, it's a metaphor for hell of eternity without God. But the Pope said it was literally true and he's infallible right? He can't be wrong or can he? Has that changed to?
 
Dan x said:
Do you not see the parallels to that and the beliefs of the socialist crackpots on that uther(75) place where they all see workers as miserable slaves to the system?
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There's shades of grey of course and there's people indoctrinated enough to be happy in their misguided 'knowledge' that they never doubt. But in my experience, they were few and far between.
 
Buckley said:
The possibility of creator exists. The offered explanations ARE untrue. They can't even agree with themselves. Hell exists. It's literal place, where you will go if don't toe the line. Oh, um, actually we made the bit up, it's a metaphor for hell of eternity without God. But the Pope said it was literally true and he's infallible right? He can't be wrong or can he? Has that changed to?
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Different people believe different versions of this truth.

Is there anything the whole world agrees on?!

There are a fair few (2.1 billion - wikipedia) that believe in one particular faith. Though against the might of the singular of Buckleyism I suppose they don't stand a chance, no?

Can you explain every emotion you feel? I certainly can't and I'm as much a 'scientist' as you are, perhaps more so!

(Sorry to throw glib rhetorical questions at you btw, just playing, erm, jesus's advocate!)
 
Dan x said:
Different people believe different versions of this truth.

Is there anything the whole world agrees on?!

There are a fair few (2.1 billion - wikipedia) that believe in one particular faith. Though against the might of the singular of Buckleyism I suppose they don't stand a chance, no?

Can you explain every emotion you feel? I certainly can't and I'm as much a 'scientist' as you are, perhaps more so!

(Sorry to throw glib rhetorical questions at you btw, just playing, erm, jesus's advocate!)
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No worries Danielsan, you know that I will forgive your doubt on the day of reckoning and your seat at my right will be there. Won't even make you say 'sorry about the unbelief and all that' on the way in.

There are fair few that believe in Scientology too - but we all accept it's preposterous right? We just didn't have the advantage of seeing the major religions before critical mass - it's the same operation, just Travolta and pals are running version 1.0 to Christianity or Islams 3.0 XP.
 
Buckers don't you see though... by preaching your words of disbelief, you are doing no more than preaching your own religion. At the end of the day all a religion is is a belief in something. Nothing is 100% proven in any religion, but people do believe in the unproven.

You believe in aethism - the fact that there is no God and the relious beliefs held by many are false. But then surely you are believing in your own religion, based on facts that YOU believe to be true, but still are unproven (i.e the fact that there is no God).

You're no different to the bible bashing church goers who spend their days trying to convince us that there REALLY is a God, and eveything he says is true! You're just doing the opposite :p
 
Buckley said:
There are fair few that believe in Scientology too - but we all accept it's preposterous right? We just didn't have the advantage of seeing the major religions before critical mass - it's the same operation, just Travolta and pals are running version 1.0 to Christianity or Islams 3.0 XP.
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Just because a particular 'faith' (and it's not really a faith, morelike a con operation based upon religious teachings (IMO)) is a brach for nutters and evil profiteerers, doesn't mean they all are.

It's like comparing yourself to David Icke.
 
Beckiboo said:
Buckers don't you see though... by preaching your words of disbelief, you are doing no more than preaching your own religion. At the end of the day all a religion is is a belief in something. Nothing is 100% proven in any religion, but people do believe in the unproven.

You believe in aethism - the fact that there is no God and the relious beliefs held by many are false. But then surely you are believing in your own religion, based on facts that YOU believe to be true, but still are unproven (i.e the fact that there is no God).

You're no different to the bible bashing church goers who spend their days trying to convince us that there REALLY is a God, and eveything he says is true! You're just doing the opposite :p
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That says much about how little of what I bang about you actually read* - I'm not an atheist because I believe there could be a creator.

I'm saying that explanantion for creation that are taught, to children, as fact when they clearly aren't, shouldn't be.

*Which is fine, but if you're going to offer an opinion you should actually read it;):p
 
Dan x said:
Just because a particular 'faith' (and it's not really a faith, morelike a con operation based upon religious teachings (IMO)) is a brach for nutters and evil profiteerers, doesn't mean they all are.
.
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You don't think that established religions used similar tactics in their early days until critical mass meant they didn't need to and it wasn't worth the bad press?
 
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Buckley said:
You don't think that established religions used similar tactics in their early days until critical mass meant they didn't need to and it wasn't worth the bad press?
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Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, no one knows really.

It's a bloody big co-incidence though, no?!
 
Buckley said:
That says much about how little of what I bang about you actually read* - I'm not an atheist because I believe there could be a creator.

I'm saying that explanantion for creation that are taught, to children, as fact when they clearly aren't, shouldn't be.

*Which is fine, but if you're going to offer an opinion you should actually read it;):p
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So you're against the sentiment off indoctoring little kids into a belief system without them knowing any better?

Could you not see it as a means of giving the little blighters a sense of belonging and welcoming and set of morals and ethics in alignment with the society they will grow up in such that they have the chance to escape that belief system as and when they are old (or clever) enough to beleive better?

Let's face it, there's a lot worse things you can (want kids to) believe in from Day 1 than the Bibles teachings of being good to your fellow man, do not steal, f*ck your next door neighbours missus etc.
 
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