Credit Crunch Thread II - The Sequel

Olly said:
basically you can't really fk the system. The system is designed to control you and probably always will

all you can really do is make incremental, micro changes to your lifestyle - supporting your independent stores, buying at co-operatives or local markets, trying to avoid the arseholes as much as possible. But you can only do it so far, at various stages you unfortunately have to pact with the devil, be it flying on their airlines, going to their music venues, reading their propaganda, using their disposable products, listening to their inane conversations on the internet, on the victoria line, on hands free

it feels so stifling at times, you feel under constant siege - capitalism is trying to deafen you, blind you, poison you, spam you at every turn - there's only ever really occasional escape

occasionally you feel free (even if it is an illusion) when you're on a remote clifftop, but there's always someone trying to regulate you in this country, there's always some sign up everywhere you go, even on the clifftop, the view will be sponsored by powergen. Count the number of signs you see in your average day, it will run into hundreds. You want to find a growth industry in the UK? the signmaking industry, boom times, litigation and fear of litigation - a field we specialise in instead of, er, exporting cars and tin openers like intelligent countries.

So caught between the tyranny of capitalism one one level and the tentacles of the state on another and the oppressive nature of public opinion, peer pressure etc is it any wonder so many of us take to the bottle or the powder?

a trully desperate state of affairs.
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Given where we are now & what we know about human weakness and strengths & our finite resources propose an alternative?

The more I see of China, the more I think they know how to organise themselves & get things done without turning the power over to corporates .... but at a massive cost to humanity and 'freedom'.

And arnachy wont work, people are short term thinking sun reading idiots by and large who will kill a man to eat.
 
Olly said:
basically you can't really fk the system. The system is designed to control you and probably always will

all you can really do is make incremental, micro changes to your lifestyle - supporting your independent stores, buying at co-operatives or local markets, trying to avoid the arseholes as much as possible. But you can only do it so far, at various stages you unfortunately have to pact with the devil, be it flying on their airlines, going to their music venues, reading their propaganda, using their disposable products, listening to their inane conversations on the internet, on the victoria line, on hands free

it feels so stifling at times, you feel under constant siege - capitalism is trying to deafen you, blind you, poison you, spam you at every turn - there's only ever really occasional escape

occasionally you feel free (even if it is an illusion) when you're on a remote clifftop, but there's always someone trying to regulate you in this country, there's always some sign up everywhere you go, even on the clifftop, the view will be sponsored by powergen. Count the number of signs you see in your average day, it will run into hundreds. You want to find a growth industry in the UK? the signmaking industry, boom times, litigation and fear of litigation - a field we specialise in instead of, er, exporting cars and tin openers like intelligent countries.

So caught between the tyranny of capitalism one one level and the tentacles of the state on another and the oppressive nature of public opinion, peer pressure etc is it any wonder so many of us take to the bottle or the powder?

a trully desperate state of affairs.
Click to expand...

I do share your views btw!

I think about the promotion & the payrise I want so bad & the car & my nice new house in middle class land...what is the relevance to 'real' life, family, solving world poverty (!)..funk all....but i'm a rat on the wheel....i learn to cope with the walls around me - institutionalise myself as i'll never comprehend how/what real 'freedom' would feel like.

Particularly as an athiest, if you spend to much time trying to make sense of the purpose of the system you go mad!
 
Buckley said:
How we all looking at the mo? At a lot of allegedly solid businesses popping in my game....
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ha ha didnt see the original, just went off on one

bulletts flying everywhere, end of schools but no retail really hurting us. although refurbs are the way forward & we have a few biggies on the cards.

as previous rant, it's all about foreign shores to help us, china, middle east etc. bidding for work in iran, syria and libya amongst others at the mo.
 
I really think people get far to existential about this crap :lol:

The system is there. It exists. It feeds off itself.

We work within it to get money for food, fun, travel and a few little things (my one weakness - electronics :lol:).

If you take it any more seriously than that, no wonder it gets you down!
 
Morbyd said:
rules.
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All animals are equal - only some are more equal than others etc.

animal_farm.jpg
 
it's not about being existential

this isn't some student union debate where we all navel-gaze and then go to the pub afterwards (believe me I did a LOT of that!)

there are critical faults with the system impacting on lives. It is right that people question whether capitalism works and whether there may be practical alternatives to leaving all the resources in the hands of the fat, greedy, nepotistic 10%
 
Olly said:
there are critical faults with the system impacting on lives. It is right that people question whether capitalism works and whether there may be practical alternatives to leaving all the resources in the hands of the fat, greedy, nepotistic 10%
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It works precisely because there will always be people who aspire to become part of that 10%. That's what keeps the ideas flowing... what keeps humanity moving forward!
 
Backward.

Forward means accepting that we're part of the same living breathing organism and return to the same place we came from when we peg it. Everyone is therefore equal (only our egos frequently tell us otherwise) and the collective is more important than the individual.

Nothing existential about that - it's just plain fact.

So...

Every time someone benefits from capitalism, someone loses out in equal measure.

This cosmology is insanity and a large contributing factor to the reason why nature would quite like to kick us off the planet and start again.
 
Robder said:
Backward.

Forward means accepting that we're part of the same living breathing organism and return to the same place we came from when we peg it. Everyone is therefore equal (only our egos frequently tell us otherwise) and the collective is more important than the individual.

Nothing existential about that - it's just plain fact.
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Right... so advances in things like science, medicine, technology, agriculture - most of which are driven by capitalism. That's all moving backward? Interesting point of view... if entirely incorrect :rolleyes:
 
Morbyd said:
It works precisely because there will always be people who aspire to become part of that 10%. That's what keeps the ideas flowing... what keeps humanity moving forward!
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the 'american dream' only ever worked for a select few ie the elite.. for the vast majority it was a myth, a public relations exercise by the establishment to justify not introducing the welfare state/social democracy that the US should have had, like Western Europe did post-WWII

it also pre-supposes that people are solely motivated by money when the fact is humanity is not about money - it's about decency, compassion and ultimately people's creative imagination, which is what distinguishes us from the apes.

if all that matters to you is your career, making a fortune and feeding a few crumbs to the plebs to keep them quiet, then that is a shocking indictment of your morality.
 
Olly said:
the 'american dream' only ever worked for a select few ie the elite.. for the vast majority it was a myth, a public relations exercise by the establishment to justify not introducing the welfare state/social democracy that the US should have had, like Western Europe did post-WWII

it also pre-supposes that people are solely motivated by money when the fact is humanity is not about money - it's about decency, compassion and ultimately people's creative imagination, which is what distinguishes us from the apes.

if all that matters to you is your career, making a fortune and feeding a few crumbs to the plebs to keep them quiet, then that is a shocking indictment of your morality.
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If that's directed at Morbs, I think it's very unfair. ( we all know he's a commie)

It's also wrong that when someone benefits from captialism, someone loses out?

Employment and trade is basically an exchange of skills, resources or knowledge.

I think people are going waaaaaaaaaay over the top on this one !:lol:
 
Morbyd said:
Right... so advances in things like science, medicine, technology, agriculture - most of which are driven by capitalism. That's all moving backward? Interesting point of view... if entirely incorrect :rolleyes:
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How has science and technology advanced the world exactly?

It's not the science that's the issue (far from it) but more the general attitude towards how we use it. With capitalism at the helm, most (not all) scientific discoveries are put towards achieving wealth and status.

Capitalism is about God fearing (its very roots stem from the formation of religion as a means to control - but that's an entirely different conversation).

Modern day society is not advancing by any stretch of the imagination. Indigenous cultures understood the power of the collective, only took what they needed from the land and made every decision based on seven generations.

Capitalism doesn't give us time or space to look further than the end of our noses. PANIC the FTSE is down! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Employment and trade is not a nice equal exchange of skills - it's an empire that says, "I've got more stuff!"

This isn't blown out of proportion and Morbs is a dear friend so it's nothing personal. :lol:
 
Robder said:
How has science and technology advanced the world exactly?
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Oh, come on... that's not debatable. So much of what we have that's good came out of science and technology.

Simple example - I love to cook and I'd probably give it up for good without teflon frying pans :lol:

Robder said:
Capitalism is about God fearing (its very roots stem from the formation of religion as a means to control - but that's an entirely different conversation).
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Que?

Robder said:
Capitalism doesn't give us time or space to look further than the end of our noses. PANIC the FTSE is down! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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If you're going to panic about it, then don't put your money in stocks :lol:
(my portfolio is 5% equities, 95% cash :lol:)

Robder said:
Employment and trade is not a nice equal exchange of skills - it's an empire that says, "I've got more stuff!"
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Whoever dies with the most toys wins :D

Robder said:
This isn't blown out of proportion and Morbs is a dear friend so it's nothing personal. :lol:
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**hug**
 
Robder said:
I didn't think you'd get that part. :)lol:)

It is actually true though.
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The tenets of modern capitalism (especially land ownership) are based on the works of philosophers who often had little regard for religion.

At the same time, trade & commerce in its basic form predated modern monotheistic religions.

So no, I don't get what you mean! :lol:
 
Philosophy doesn't mean sh!t - like science it's the bias behind the execution that's important.

Capitalism reinforces the same 'boys club' mentality that the bible propagates.

If I even try to expand on this I will wind up in an existential cul-de-sac.

...but if interested in knowing more, I've never seen it put so eloquently as in this book. It's seriously amazing and I'd love you to read it (that's an invitation not an order though obviously).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adam-Evil-H...9438/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297353550&sr=8-1
 
Capitalism = A self licking ice cream cone (John translate for the UK members)

We borrow to get what we see, buy to get what other have; to keep up with the Jones, Smythes, or Khruchevs:lol::lol:
 
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