☣ Coronavirus ☣

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Ibizapaul said:
Apparently the pharmacies have offered to help like they do with the flu jabs, met with a wall of silence. If that is true it is a joke. You have all these trained pharmacists in Boots or wherever, offering to help but instead they are making ex GP's and volunteers answer questions on racial understanding and health and safety....
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Yes - firstly pharmacies not being allowed to do the jabs as you asy, and the second is the overwhelming bureaucracy involved when retired medics want to re-join to help our (ie certificates for irrellevant courses they can't possibly have been on). These have been highlighted in the press of course.
Johnson is making an TV appearance today primarily about the vaccine roll-out, and the figures this week have really woken the Tories up; expect military action in shifting the vaccines and allowing pharmacies to deliver (at least). If not he's gonna face some awkward questions he will have to waffle through.
Good news is that within weeks a further vaccineshould be available which only requires one jab. Just that there's currently a shortage of medics to inject us!
 
To throw in the mix theres the news that initial studies on the South African variant show the vaccine(s) is not as effective (source; Sky News). 11 samples (poor sample size I know) and some showed reduced antibody effectiveness - in a lab setting. So possibly expect more time locked down whilst they tweak it. Flight radar showed flights from Joburg still arriving in the UK as of Tuesday! (unless I read it wrong) . If thats a dominant strain it will end up here and we'll probaby all be back in this cycle.
 
Hope everyone is doing well. Checking in from time to time but I don't feel the need to argue here every day anymore.
Lockdowns are not the answer but apparently the only thing our governments can think of.
Just roll out those vaccines already, it's the lighting rod everyone needs to stop the measures eventually and I'll hope to see you all in Ibiza in summer then.

In the Netherlands, the measures are stricter then ever while the hospital numbers are not even half of what they were in april 2020. Like I said earlier, we went from deaths, to ICU numbers, to hospitalizations and now to cases as the big scary indicator to push us further into lockdowns and stricter measures. I still have my job but many friends are going bankrupt. I still stand by my belief that in the end....we'll all have the relative same death toll, wether you had a really strict lockdown, a loose lockdown, multiple lockdowns or no lockdowns. Same goes for facemasks and other restrictions.
It's a virus, it's not manufacturable.

Anyway, seems like I vented my opinion again after all :p
Sincerely hope everyone is well, take care and hope we can discuss Ibiza gossip soon again.
 
ElrowLovers said:
Hope everyone is doing well. Checking in from time to time but I don't feel the need to argue here every day anymore.
Lockdowns are not the answer but apparently the only thing our governments can think of.
Just roll out those vaccines already, it's the lighting rod everyone needs to stop the measures eventually and I'll hope to see you all in Ibiza in summer then.

In the Netherlands, the measures are stricter then ever while the hospital numbers are not even half of what they were in april 2020. Like I said earlier, we went from deaths, to ICU numbers, to hospitalizations and now to cases as the big scary indicator to push us further into lockdowns and stricter measures. I still have my job but many friends are going bankrupt. I still stand by my belief that in the end....we'll all have the relative same death toll, wether you had a really strict lockdown, a loose lockdown, multiple lockdowns or no lockdowns. Same goes for facemasks and other restrictions.
It's a virus, it's not manufacturable.

Anyway, seems like I vented my opinion again after all :p
Sincerely hope everyone is well, take care and hope we can discuss Ibiza gossip soon again.
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What would you do today, in UK, if you dont want a lockdown?
 
ElrowLovers said:
Hope everyone is doing well. Checking in from time to time but I don't feel the need to argue here every day anymore.
Lockdowns are not the answer but apparently the only thing our governments can think of.
Just roll out those vaccines already, it's the lighting rod everyone needs to stop the measures eventually and I'll hope to see you all in Ibiza in summer then.

In the Netherlands, the measures are stricter then ever while the hospital numbers are not even half of what they were in april 2020. Like I said earlier, we went from deaths, to ICU numbers, to hospitalizations and now to cases as the big scary indicator to push us further into lockdowns and stricter measures. I still have my job but many friends are going bankrupt. I still stand by my belief that in the end....we'll all have the relative same death toll, wether you had a really strict lockdown, a loose lockdown, multiple lockdowns or no lockdowns. Same goes for facemasks and other restrictions.
It's a virus, it's not manufacturable.

Anyway, seems like I vented my opinion again after all :p
Sincerely hope everyone is well, take care and hope we can discuss Ibiza gossip soon again.
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a 1000 people currently dying a day in the UK. how many more would it be had they followed your advice?
 
ElrowLovers said:
Hope everyone is doing well. Checking in from time to time but I don't feel the need to argue here every day anymore.
Lockdowns are not the answer but apparently the only thing our governments can think of.
Just roll out those vaccines already, it's the lighting rod everyone needs to stop the measures eventually and I'll hope to see you all in Ibiza in summer then.

In the Netherlands, the measures are stricter then ever while the hospital numbers are not even half of what they were in april 2020. Like I said earlier, we went from deaths, to ICU numbers, to hospitalizations and now to cases as the big scary indicator to push us further into lockdowns and stricter measures. I still have my job but many friends are going bankrupt. I still stand by my belief that in the end....we'll all have the relative same death toll, wether you had a really strict lockdown, a loose lockdown, multiple lockdowns or no lockdowns. Same goes for facemasks and other restrictions.
It's a virus, it's not manufacturable.

Anyway, seems like I vented my opinion again after all :p
Sincerely hope everyone is well, take care and hope we can discuss Ibiza gossip soon again.
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As much as I agree with a lot of what you normally say, if you saw the numbers in the UK right now I don't think you can argue with a lockdown...
 
Tourist said:
a 1000 people currently dying a day in the UK. how many more would it be had they followed your advice?
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Need to be careful on how you read what the media publish. We’re averaging about 600 a day (horrendous) not 1000. The 1000 figure was the deaths reported figure, but which occured over many weeks previously, but only recorded yesterday.
 
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Ibizapaul said:
As much as I agree with a lot of what you normally say, if you saw the numbers in the UK right now I don't think you can argue with a lockdown...
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I feel really bad for the UK, but I don't think the lockdown is the answer to those deaths.
Lockdowns everywhere, but numbers keep rising.
 
Hally said:
What would you do today, in UK, if you dont want a lockdown?
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It's not about what I want...it's about the tunnel vision governments have thinking they can actually do something about a virus (apart from medication or vaccines). Not everything in the world is controllable. Lockdowns, lifting the lockdowns, lockdown again...it hasn't worked.
 
ElrowLovers said:
I feel really bad for the UK, but I don't think the lockdown is the answer to those deaths.
Lockdowns everywhere, but numbers keep rising.
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So what would be your alternative suggestion? Both lockdowns we had in the UK saw a depletion in both the number of infected and the number of deaths. The first lockdown was admittedly much more successful as it was longer and people took it more seriously - although the second lockdown definitely helped lower the numbers too.

I think all of us in the UK have accepted the fact that we'll be locked down for at least a couple of months now - and a recent survey showed an overwhelming response in approval of the new lockdown - so I'm just struggling to understand the logic behind suggesting it is not needed?
 
ElrowLovers said:
It's not about what I want...it's about the tunnel vision governments have thinking they can actually do something about a virus (apart from medication or vaccines). Not everything in the world is controllable. Lockdowns, lifting the lockdowns, lockdown again...it hasn't worked.
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Okay, what do you think would work, today, in the UK?
 
Here in the real world.....

Open a ward, 2 days later full. Open another ward, 2 days later full. And so on, and so on. Now we have no more wards. The ambulances keep on coming.

At the same time more and more staff are off. Not a great equation.

Try not to not to have an accident, heart attack, get ill and need an ambulance or hospital bed because for the first time ever there might not be one.

This isnt speculation. It's happening now. There has been a 10 hour wait for a level 2 call (suspected heart attack, stroke etc), in London, maximum wait should be 18 minutes. Busiest day ever for ambulances ever in Birmingham, probably will beat that many times the next couple of weeks

Lockdowns are obviously (to most of us) to stop the above happening or becoming even worse. They arent the long term solution, no one thinks they are do they?

But why not lift the lockdown, what could possibly go wrong?
 
Hally said:
Here in the real world.....

Open a ward, 2 days later full. Open another ward, 2 days later full. And so on, and so on. Now we have no more wards. The ambulances keep on coming.

At the same time more and more staff are off. Not a great equation.

Try not to not to have an accident, heart attack, get ill and need an ambulance or hospital bed because for the first time ever there might not be one.

This isnt speculation. It's happening now. There has been a 10 hour wait for a level 2 call (suspected heart attack, stroke etc), in London, maximum wait should be 18 minutes. Busiest day ever for ambulances ever in Birmingham, probably will beat that many times the next couple of weeks

Lockdowns are obviously (to most of us) to stop the above happening or becoming even worse. They arent the long term solution, no one thinks they are do they?

But why not lift the lockdown, what could possibly go wrong?
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What evidence do we have that the lockdowns are stopping all of the above? They haven't stopped this for what is soon to be about a year.

And the real world is not just your workplace, despite how harsh the situation there might be.
The real world is also kids not being able to go to school, business dying, people stressed out, depressed, other healthcare postponed, healthy people quarantined while they could be of use in society.

I truly believe we would have the same numbers (and unfortunately you and you're co-workers would be just as busy with this heavy task) without a lockdown but with specific measures for the elderly and vulnerable.
 
Hally said:
Here in the real world.....

Open a ward, 2 days later full. Open another ward, 2 days later full. And so on, and so on. Now we have no more wards. The ambulances keep on coming.

At the same time more and more staff are off. Not a great equation.

Try not to not to have an accident, heart attack, get ill and need an ambulance or hospital bed because for the first time ever there might not be one.

This isnt speculation. It's happening now. There has been a 10 hour wait for a level 2 call (suspected heart attack, stroke etc), in London, maximum wait should be 18 minutes. Busiest day ever for ambulances ever in Birmingham, probably will beat that many times the next couple of weeks

Lockdowns are obviously (to most of us) to stop the above happening or becoming even worse. They arent the long term solution, no one thinks they are do they?

But why not lift the lockdown, what could possibly go wrong?
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I think what they may mean is, let's not bother with lockdowns. We know the vulnerable can't be meaningfully isolated and protected (unless you go lord of the flies and leave them to their own devices in homes etc). So let's just get on with it...

bring-out-your-dead-gif.gif
 
feynman said:
No

Lockdowns are working. Extreme Lockdowns are working well. Look at China. But the chinese measures are impossible in Europe or the whole western world.
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I agree China-like lockdowns would work if you keep it up until everyone is vaccinated. That would mean extreme china-lockdown till end of September or so. This would do more harm than good.

Lockdowns are not working in a normal free world where we all would definitely choose to live in. No one here would want to live in China.
So I've been hearing: "this lockdown here is not the right lockdown", "this lockdown was too short", "this lockdown was too loose", this lockdown is too late".

Lockdowns don't work in a free society.
 
ElrowLovers said:
What evidence do we have that the lockdowns are stopping all of the above? They haven't stopped this for what is soon to be about a year.

And the real world is not just your workplace, despite how harsh the situation there might be.
The real world is also kids not being able to go to school, business dying, people stressed out, depressed, other healthcare postponed, healthy people quarantined while they could be of use in society.

I truly believe we would have the same numbers (and unfortunately you and you're co-workers would be just as busy with this heavy task) without a lockdown but with specific measures for the elderly and vulnerable.
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There is lots of evidence limiting social contact reduces infection.

If you could somehow magically protect the elderly you would still do huge damage to the health of society if you let the disease rip through

Please dont reply to me, not interested
 
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ElrowLovers said:
I agree China-like lockdowns would work if you keep it up until everyone is vaccinated. That would mean extreme china-lockdown till end of September or so. This would do more harm than good.

Lockdowns are not working in a normal free world where we all would definitely choose to live in. No one here would want to live in China.
So I've been hearing: "this lockdown here is not the right lockdown", "this lockdown was too short", "this lockdown was too loose", this lockdown is too late".

Lockdowns don't work in a free society.
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Is that you Donald? Guess gotta post somewhere now twitter blocked you ?

Cba to post actual graphs, infections and lockdowns.

? vaccination rolls out quickly.
 
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