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FlatErik said:
Also...I've noticed that the UK base here is kinda biased when it comes to this AZ thing.
Do we really know what has transpired in those negotiations?
From what I'm reading the EU is not blaming the UK...but blaming AZ for holding back loads of vaccins saying they have production problems...but in the meantime are negotiating new contracts with countries outside the EU.
The truth will be somewhere in the middle...
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it's rapidly turning into the Daily Express angry reader's page :lol:

yeah the EU messed up but the Brits aren't blameless either.... that's what happens when these things are subcontracted to capitalist interests rather than the greater cause of global humanity...

personally I'm more pissed off right now about tourists having travel rights that locals here do not.... but largely resigned to a few more months in effective captivity...
 
Tourist said:
it's rapidly turning into the Daily Express angry reader's page :lol:

yeah the EU messed up but the Brits aren't blameless either.... that's what happens when these things are subcontracted to capitalist interests rather than the greater cause of global humanity...

personally I'm more pissed off right now about tourists having travel rights that locals here do not.... but largely resigned to a few more months in effective captivity...
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I think if I still lived in a EU country then I would be voting that Von Der Leyen straight out in the next elections...

...oh wait.
 
yeah, out of her depth.... but then again would all this have sunk anyone? I dunno. Seems to me excess bureaucracy has been the real issue here. very necessary when you want to enforce food standards etc - a serious nuisance however when you need to move at lightning fast speed. I still think the EU as a thing offers more perks being inside than outside, but it does require a kick up the arse
 
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Tourist said:
yeah, out of her depth.... but then again would all this have sunk anyone? I dunno. Seems to me excess bureaucracy has been the real issue here. very necessary when you want to enforce food standards etc - a serious nuisance however when you need to move at lightning fast speed. I still think the EU as a thing offers more perks being inside than outside, but it does require a kick up the arse
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I think they naively thought if your order something from a company, they will make sure it's all smooth sailing and getting manufacturing sorted out.

UK used peeps who worked in pharma and probably knew they'd mess it up at least to start with, so got uk gov to invest in getting whole supply chain in order. 🤔💁‍♂️
 
Tourist said:
it's rapidly turning into the Daily Express angry reader's page :lol:

yeah the EU messed up but the Brits aren't blameless either.... that's what happens when these things are subcontracted to capitalist interests rather than the greater cause of global humanity...

personally I'm more pissed off right now about tourists having travel rights that locals here do not.... but largely resigned to a few more months in effective captivity...
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In fairness, our government always gets its dues on this forum, particularly on this thread, so the EU's shithousery this time round is more than fair game

Equal opportunist critics
 
Tourist said:
yeah, out of her depth.... but then again would all this have sunk anyone? I dunno. Seems to me excess bureaucracy has been the real issue here. very necessary when you want to enforce food standards etc - a serious nuisance however when you need to move at lightning fast speed. I still think the EU as a thing offers more perks being inside than outside, but it does require a kick up the arse
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I agree on this. I wrote something similar a 100 pages ago. The best / worst traits of the EU / Boris this time worked for / against them.

On the Vaccine front, the worst trait of the UK/Boris Johnson - roll the dice and buy every vaccine, don’t worry about cost, pay over the odds, and let the companies take zero liability- this time paid off. The vaccines all work, we have mountains of them, we specified in the contract that we get supplied first. It COULD have been a disaster if they actually purchased all the vaccines and none of them had worked! We would be on a pile of bad debt right now!

The EU’s best traits turned out to be bad in this instance. They were too considered, they took time, they are rules based, they negotiate hard as anything, they probably took weeks over a 3 line clause in a contract - and were too slow. In many instances this works 100% in their favor, but when you need speed - it doesn't.
 
mr_why said:
It COULD have been a disaster if they actually purchased all the vaccines and none of them had worked! We would be on a pile of bad debt right now!
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Nope, the £12bn spent on vaccines would be the least of your worries if none of them had worked.

The cost of Covid to the economy is so high that the amount spent on vaccines - even in the UK - is negligible in comparison. Even if the chance of getting a working vaccine was 50%, that bet had the right odds.
 
JB2008 said:
Some not-so-great findings on reliability of rapid antigen tests. Per recent study, they only pick up 72% of symptomatic infections and 58% of asymptomatic. Below WHO standards.

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They're not a reliable substitute for lab PCR tests sadly, and I personally have no confidence in them as a screening process for entry to events / indoor venues etc. Until they come up with something way more accurate to use for this I can't see re-openings bringing anything less than a resurgence in cases.
 
Tourist said:
I still think the EU as a thing offers more perks being inside than outside, but it does require a kick up the arse
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The thing they seem best at is milling around having discussions about things and dragging out negotiations but when it comes to effectively achieving anything important they struggle to perform. Basically they have a mindset of protracting issues rather than resolving them, and in so doing create the conditions to secure their ongoing (disproportionately expensive) self-appointed "relevance". Leave enough ambiguity and uncertainty around everything you do and you create a big enough in tray requiring your ongoing engagement .... UK civil servants used to be very good at the same thing :lol:
 
Interesting new quotes from Macron this evening. Kind of what I was saying above, they were too sensible.

"We didn't shoot for the stars. That should be a lesson for all of us. We were wrong to lack ambition, to lack the madness, I would say, to say: It's possible, let's do it," Macron said, in a rare admission of failure in the pandemic.

mobile.reuters.com

EU's vaccine failure is because it didn't 'shoot for the stars,' Macron says

European leaders failed to see that COVID-19 vaccines would be developed as soon as they were and this was why rollouts in the EU now lagged behind some other countries, French President Emmanuel Macron said in an interview broadcast on Wednesday.
mobile.reuters.com mobile.reuters.com
 
mr_why said:
Interesting new quotes from Macron this evening. Kind of what I was saying above, they were too sensible.

"We didn't shoot for the stars. That should be a lesson for all of us. We were wrong to lack ambition, to lack the madness, I would say, to say: It's possible, let's do it," Macron said, in a rare admission of failure in the pandemic.

mobile.reuters.com

EU's vaccine failure is because it didn't 'shoot for the stars,' Macron says

European leaders failed to see that COVID-19 vaccines would be developed as soon as they were and this was why rollouts in the EU now lagged behind some other countries, French President Emmanuel Macron said in an interview broadcast on Wednesday.
mobile.reuters.com mobile.reuters.com
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Jesus, what an absolute loser mindset.
 
kimajy said:
Meanwhile, Angela is softening up Vladimir in a desperate bid to put vaccines on the table and reduce dependency on Astrazeneca.
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Despite its reputation, Sputnik V actually looks like a good vaccine, it's probably better than the AstraZeneca one. Sputnik has different virus vectors for the 1st and the 2nd shot, so unlike AZ, the immunity gained after the 1st shot doesn't affect the 2nd shot.

But the Russians lack production capabilities - they only produced 10 million doses of Sputnik so far (it's less that the number of vaccinations the U. S. is doing every 4 days). So Vlad cannot solve our problems with vaccine shipments even if he wanted to. Nevertheless, if there is a way to get Sputnik (via shipments or licensed production), I think we should do it.

In Russia, only 1 person out of 3 wants to get vaccinated according to opinion polls. The Russian propaganda against Western vaccines seems to have backfired here - people now seem to be afraid of their own vaccine too 🤣

Ew-LWWTWQAMy2Mq
 
I was told (by my Russian friend) that the Russian vaccine is terrible and has caused a lot of deaths.
But i couldn't have been bothered to ask her to elaborate or back it up.
 
soha said:
I was told (by my Russian friend) that the Russian vaccine is terrible and has caused a lot of deaths.
But i couldn't have been bothered to ask her to elaborate or back it up.
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There are 3 different Russian vaccines. Are such reports any more credible than claims of lethal side effects from pfizer, Moderna and Astrazeneca vaccines ? Sputnik V should go through independently administered trials in Europe, Africa/Asia and the Americas comparable with the others that have been approved for use. The US has forced Astrazeneca to conduct American trials in order to be licenced there so it's not like areas of the world don't impose this requirement in respect of vaccines developed abroad. It's hard to know whether to trust Chinese or Russian vaccines more tbh - but one thing's pretty sure UK will not be approaching Russia to co-operate in mutual production, such is the mistrust of a country which whose agents blatently came in and used nerve agents on people granted asylum here !
 
kimajy said:
There are 3 different Russian vaccines. Are such reports any more credible than claims of lethal side effects from pfizer, Moderna and Astrazeneca vaccines ? Sputnik V should go through independently administered trials in Europe, Africa/Asia and the Americas comparable with the others that have been approved for use. The US has forced Astrazeneca to conduct American trials in order to be licenced there so it's not like areas of the world don't impose this requirement in respect of vaccines developed abroad. It's hard to know whether to trust Chinese or Russian vaccines more tbh - but one thing's pretty sure UK will not be approaching Russia to co-operate in mutual production, such is the mistrust of a country which whose agents blatently came in and used nerve agents on people granted asylum here !
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Yeah as I say I didn't even bother to take the convo further, i just roll my eyes and move on.
One thing I have learned though is that Russia sure is an interesting place lol.
We hear very little about Russia anymore in our media.
 
In England, 73 reported deaths today, last Thurs it was 97. That's near enough 25% reduction week-on-week. With reported deaths being much lower over the weekend -roughtly half the average - (due to closed offices, the figs catch up on Tues/Weds) I can see a zero-deaths day approaching, maybe before April 12th.

Wonder if that would make the news headlines rather than "School shut through covid" or "Thousands of new cases in (insert country).
 
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