☣ Coronavirus ☣

Status
Not open for further replies.
I get that, but I think people will recall the government saying "things will look very different by spring 2021". The fear is this just goes on and one, with no perfect solution.

On a plus, I got to Switzerland twice and Germany twice last summer (all legitimately) and went clubbing both times, so I'm optimistic that there will be options across Europe this summer. Clubbing plus international travel in 2020, with no vaccine, has to be improved upon surely in summer 2021? We shall wait and see...
 
One part of me thinks that they are using the new strains as an excuse to keep us locked down - harsher for longer.
To what end? Is every Government in the world collaborating for the few who are undoubtedly making a fortune from this?
 
I get that, but I think people will recall the government saying "things will look very different by spring 2021". The fear is this just goes on and one, with no perfect solution.

.

We're not quite at the year mark. Did anyone really think things were going to close down for a month and then we'd all be back to normal? I've heard various war time comparisons - but society has been disrupted for far longer and citizens been asked to make far greater sacrifices in the past. Vaccines have been developed quickly and I think waiting to see what difference these make is reasonable. Why would you expect governments to tell you exactly what things will look like in 6 months time when this is such a rare scenario and no-one knows for sure?
 
To what end? Is every Government in the world collaborating for the few who are undoubtedly making a fortune from this?

Reputation, elections, EU pacts, millions of dollars spend on vaccines, tunnel vision (Covid is all that matters) the fear of what would happen if governments would now say...closing shops and restaurants wasn't necessary after all, the world leaders are being held hostage by white coats and by seeing what their neighbors are doing...World leaders too are in fear and are being fed worst case scenario's instead of realistic ones.
 
Last edited:
"One part of me thinks that they are using the new strains as an excuse to keep us locked down - harsher for longer"

My post was a question about why you think this might be the case?

The Tory government appears to have been handing over contracts by the £b's to their mates. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/21/tories-covid-contracts-public-trust-government
The longer it goes on....
 
It's obviously not a good look if we've all been protecting the vulnerable and then they're allowed to piss off on holiday before us, but ultimately the government probably won't get to decide that. If another country deems it a condition of entry then it's their choice, our government won't get a say in it unless they ban all travel, which wouldn't be popular with their voter base.
 
Jesus, I thought the warning would be enough but here we are again. It's all a conspiracy
Warning? What warning? No one received a warning for anything?

Did you read the Welt.de articles in the post? It's big news in Germany and neighbor countries. It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

A warning would be suitable for people who don't read post but jeopardize the poster anyway 🤷‍♂️
 
Did anyone really think things were going to close down for a month and then we'd all be back to normal?

Im going to be totally honest here mate, and at risk of great ridicule etc, but I actually did believe that at the start 😬🤦‍♂️

Makes me sound like the most naive bloke ever now lol. Absolute sweet summer child 😄

I think I’m too optimistic in my outlook on life.

I genuinely thought a few weeks of lockdown would have it all sorted out and we’d all be back to normal. Cheers easy. I’ll just crack on now.

My other half was the polar opposite. End of the world etc. All going to die. Hell is coming. The end is nigh.

Cringe at myself now after the year we’ve all had 😑
 
Warning? What warning? No one received a warning for anything?

Did you read the Welt.de articles in the post? It's big news in Germany and neighbor countries. It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

A warning would be suitable for people who don't read post but jeopardize the poster anyway 🤷‍♂️
I have read it(translated). Firstly, I would like to know why you think that during a pandemic a government shouldn't order a worst case scenario to be quantified and if you think these figures were put together genuinely/in good faith?
 
I have read it(translated). Firstly, I would like to know why you think that during a pandemic a government shouldn't order a worst case scenario to be quantified and if you think these figures were put together genuinely/in good faith?
Another article on this, translated from https://nos.nl/artikel/2367971-duit...chappers-in-om-corona-angst-op-te-wekken.html

At the beginning of last year, the German Ministry of the Interior worked with several scientists on a strategy to increase fear of corona, in order to foster understanding for drastic corona measures. The newspaper Die Welt reports this on the basis of a leaked email exchange.
Minister of the Interior Seehofer and the scientists involved have not yet responded. Opposition parties demand clarification.

The emails date from March and April 2020, when Germany was in the first lockdown. Seehofer was concerned about easing too quickly and instructed his State Secretary Markus Kerber to come up with a plan to generate support for more stringent measures.

Kerber sent an email to various scientists, universities and research institutes asking, among other things, for a worst-case scenario to get a "mental and systematic" grip on the situation. This would help to plan "measures of a preventive and repressive nature".
The scientists provided plenty of suggestions, including proposals to put "fear and obedience in the population" on the agenda, writes Die Welt. For this purpose, campaigns could be used with images of people dying of breathlessness because there are no IC beds available.

Warnings for millions of deaths
It is striking that scientists "negotiated" among themselves about the possible death toll that should be mentioned. The RKI, the German RIVM, proposed to work with their estimate of 0.56 percent of the infected persons, but an employee of the RWI, an influential economic research institute, argued for the death rate of 1.2 percent.

He wrote that they should think "from the purpose of the model", which is to emphasize "a lot of pressure to act" and therefore present the numbers "better worse than too good".

Both mortality rates are included in the Ministry's ultimate strategy document. For the worst-case scenario, they used the percentage suggested by the RWI. If the government does not act, 70 percent of the population could become infected and the death toll could run into the millions, Seehofer warned several times at the time.

The emails were supposed to be kept secret. They were released after months of proceedings from a Berlin group of lawyers, who sent them to Die Welt. The names of scientists have been made illegible in the emails. It is clear that Lothar Wieler, the boss of the RKI, was involved in the email exchange. The RKI does not want to say anything about it, because it would be an "internal discussion document".


So...you feel this has happened in good faith?
 
Last edited:
Another article on this:

At the beginning of last year, the German Ministry of the Interior worked with several scientists on a strategy to increase fear of corona, in order to foster understanding for drastic corona measures. The newspaper Die Welt reports this on the basis of a leaked email exchange.
Minister of the Interior Seehofer and the scientists involved have not yet responded. Opposition parties demand clarification.

The emails date from March and April 2020, when Germany was in the first lockdown. Seehofer was concerned about easing too quickly and instructed his State Secretary Markus Kerber to come up with a plan to generate support for more stringent measures.

Kerber sent an email to various scientists, universities and research institutes asking, among other things, for a worst-case scenario to get a "mental and systematic" grip on the situation. This would help to plan "measures of a preventive and repressive nature".
The scientists provided plenty of suggestions, including proposals to put "fear and obedience in the population" on the agenda, writes Die Welt. For this purpose, campaigns could be used with images of people dying of breathlessness because there are no IC beds available.

Warnings for millions of deaths
It is striking that scientists "negotiated" among themselves about the possible death toll that should be mentioned. The RKI, the German RIVM, proposed to work with their estimate of 0.56 percent of the infected persons, but an employee of the RWI, an influential economic research institute, argued for the death rate of 1.2 percent.

He wrote that they should think "from the purpose of the model", which is to emphasize "a lot of pressure to act" and therefore present the numbers "better worse than too good".

Both mortality rates are included in the Ministry's ultimate strategy document. For the worst-case scenario, they used the percentage suggested by the RWI. If the government does not act, 70 percent of the population could become infected and the death toll could run into the millions, Seehofer warned several times at the time.

The emails were supposed to be kept secret. They were released after months of proceedings from a Berlin group of lawyers, who sent them to Die Welt. The names of scientists have been made illegible in the emails. It is clear that Lothar Wieler, the boss of the RKI, was involved in the email exchange. The RKI does not want to say anything about it, because it would be an "internal discussion document".


So...you feel this has happened in good faith?

can you please always include the actual link so everyone sees the source of that text. should be standard really.
 
You don't have to wear a tin foil hat to see through this:

- Disturbing images and stories from China, WHO reaction, China in lockdown.
- World leaders turn to a crisisteam full of doctors, they say people will be dying.
- Governments all over the world have economized on healthcare for years, hospitals are already full in flu season let alone with this coming.
- No government wants this responsibility on their shoulders, so they turn to science and MSM to help frame the message of fear in a worst case scenario to make sure strict measures are accepted by society so they can copy China lockdown.
- Crisis team full of doctors keeps pushing the agenda, with a good heart..they want empty hospitals, they want to make people better but they are blind for the collateral damage the measures are doing. Governments in mass tunnelvision, there is no turning back.
- If country A does a curfew or a travel ban, country B must follow, it's a stranglehold of government reactions
- EU pact, millions are spent on vaccines, the way back is now more impossible than ever, so the image of fear must return again...variants are brought up via disturbing articles in the media.
- World leaders keep extending measures with vaccines in sight as a lightning rod for the measures.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's not denial. It's not saying no one is sick or dying. It's not saying hospitals aren't full. It's not saying the variants are not real. But I truly believe the fact governments are actively trying to scare us by making things bigger and worse is real. Very real. And that is concerning to say the least.
 
I have read both articles in the welt (my native language is german anyway). I've spoken to a few german friends today to ask them what the reaction was. one of them hadn't even heard of it. another one said it was a storm in a teacup and it also wasn't surprising coming from a right leaning paper.

I totally get that @FlatErik will never understand that something like that could possibly happen in good faith, but I personally do.

also... in the comments below one of both articles in question on welt.de I found this very nice quote. it's in german, but google translate will help you as always:

"Manche Leute glauben, sie wüßten, was in der Welt passiert, wenn sie die Zeitung lesen. Dabei wissen sie nur, was in der Zeitung steht. "(Mark Twain)
 
It's obviously not a good look if we've all been protecting the vulnerable and then they're allowed to piss off on holiday before us, but ultimately the government probably won't get to decide that. If another country deems it a condition of entry then it's their choice, our government won't get a say in it unless they ban all travel, which wouldn't be popular with their voter base.
true you never know, it may boil down to countries acting on how largely their peoples population have been vaccinated. UAE as a prime example they might be in a better spot to except tourism regardless of their jab status
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top