☣ Coronavirus ☣

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4tothefloor said:
I can’t decide. On the face of it they are utterly incompetent. But the uni student situation, brexit, what we see in Greater Manchester and the gradual picking off of regions to move to tier 3 makes me think there is something else under the surface. Starmer’s intervention ensures there would be no immediate lockdown. That and Manchester has politicised the whole thing in the public consciousness. It was always political, just not at a surface level. I’m increasingly certain there is more than meets the eye going on.
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I'm sure there are lots of people taking advantage on the edges and using it as an opportunity to further agendas. Just nothing about this lot screams 'grand plan' ?
 
4tothefloor said:
I can’t decide. On the face of it they are utterly incompetent. But the uni student situation, brexit, what we see in Greater Manchester and the gradual picking off of regions to move to tier 3 with no apparent exit strategy makes me think there is something else under the surface. Starmer’s intervention ensures there would be no immediate lockdown. That and Manchester have politicised the whole thing in the public consciousness. It was always political, just not at a surface level. I’m increasingly certain there is more than meets the eye going on. If I was in a tier 3 area I’d want to know what the exit strategy is. Quite why no one is pushing at this is also very bizarre.
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We have an exit strategy. They will have a statutory look in four weeks.

If figures improve, they'll leave it as it is, if figures worsen, they'll leave it as it is.

The only way out of this is a public uprising.
 
Neo95gt said:
Almost all of the trial data I’ve seen shows the vaccine triggering neutralizing antibodies, which means sterilization immunity. Of course we need to see the efficacy data from the Phase 3 trials, but sterilization immunity is very likely across the board for the leading vaccine candidates. No idea where you are getting your info.

Also, the vaccine chief in the US is estimating vaccines to be 80-90% effective.
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Vaccines triggering neutralizing antibodies does not mean sterilizing immunity.

This article covid-19 vaccine protocols reveal that trials are designed to succeed covers the endpoints/success criteria for the leading vaccine candidates.

It is actually necessary for participants in the trials to become infected in order to prove it works. Therefore its not possible they provide sterilizing immunity otherwise the trials would produce no data.

All of the leading vaccine candidates are intramuscular injections. Up until this point in time vaccines of this type have not been able to produce enough antibodies in the upper respiratory tract to prevent infections.

This Nasal vaccine against COVID-19 prevents infection in mice sounds promising in regards to sterilizing immunity but it has not entered human trials.

I think a lot of the announcements in the press regarding when vaccines will be ready or how effective they will be are nothing more than attempts to gather interest from investors and inflate share prices for the pharma companies.
 
I wonder if the residents of Bury North & Bury South & Bolton are regretting their choice of vote in 2019...

At least the EU will now realise we really are willing to blow our kneecaps off...
 
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IainB2 said:
Vaccines triggering neutralizing antibodies does not mean sterilizing immunity.

This article covid-19 vaccine protocols reveal that trials are designed to succeed covers the endpoints/success criteria for the leading vaccine candidates.

It is actually necessary for participants in the trials to become infected in order to prove it works. Therefore its not possible they provide sterilizing immunity otherwise the trials would produce no data.

All of the leading vaccine candidates are intramuscular injections. Up until this point in time vaccines of this type have not been able to produce enough antibodies in the upper respiratory tract to prevent infections.

This Nasal vaccine against COVID-19 prevents infection in mice sounds promising in regards to sterilizing immunity but it has not entered human trials.

I think a lot of the announcements in the press regarding when vaccines will be ready or how effective they will be are nothing more than attempts to gather interest from investors and inflate share prices for the pharma companies.
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Sorry dude, but you’re full of shit. I guess the flu vaccine isn’t effective either?
 
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2H76 said:
We have an exit strategy. They will have a statutory look in four weeks.

If figures improve, they'll leave it as it is, if figures worsen, they'll leave it as it is.

The only way out of this is a public uprising.
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Same story as here in The Netherlands.

I truly feel public uprising is the only way out...or perhaps going to court like German restaurants just did.
Politicians will not be able to get out of this tunnel. The only thing that will get us out in a few months is the rushed non-proven vaccin that will do nothing else than the flu vaccins we already have, but it will serve as a way out, a lightning rod for world leaders to say: look at what we've done, we developed a cure and we saved you. Well thanks a lot for saving me from a virus I would have survived 99,99 percent anyway, but hey...at least we can rebuild the economy again.

In years to come young healthy people will feel the effects of this crisis, not from the virus but from the effects of the measures. Going from a good income to a lower income, needing financial support, losing your job etc..takes a big chomp out of your overall mental and physical health and life expectancy.
 
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ElrowLovers said:
Same story as here in The Netherlands.

I truly feel public uprising is the only way out...or perhaps going to court like German restaurants just did.
Politicians will not be able to get out of this tunnel. The only thing that will get us out in a few months is the rushed non-proven vaccin that will do nothing else than the flu vaccins we already have, but it will serve as a way out, a lightning rod for world leaders to say: look at what we've done, we developed a cure and we saved you. Well thanks a lot for saving me from a virus I would have survived 99,99 percent anyway, but hey...at least we can rebuild the economy again.

In years to come young healthy people will feel the effects of this crisis, not from the virus but from the effects of the measures. Going from a good income to a lower income, needing financial support, losing your job etc..takes a big chomp out of your overall mental and physical health and life expectancy.
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I'm still wondering why numbers are still rising if its down to dodgy tests

The flu vaccine is really effective

It's not you who we need to save
 
Hally said:
I'm still wondering why numbers are still rising if its down to dodgy tests

The flu vaccine is really effective

It's not you who we need to save
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I definitely don't need saving. 99% of the people in the world don't need saving. Let's save the 1% who really need it and protect them instead of locking down the entire society (and thus creating even worse problems including severe health issues) until that 1% can get their vaccine.

Numbers are rising here because testing has increased. Numbers will fall when we stop testing or get better test methods. PCR has a 40% false positive number, as concluded in scientific research by the University Hospital in Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Hospitals are still miles away from the pressure they had in march. It's fall. There are people dying from flu and long infections every fall.

Flu vaccins are effective, until there's a new strain of the flu (like Covid)...we had that problem in 2016 and 2018 too.
 
You can't just save the 1%, not how societies work sadly. If you could, they would. The government doesn't want to wreck the economy

Nonsense. Testing numbers the same numbers rising rapidly. Just accept you've been talking nonsense

Flu changes, we need to predict those changes. Vaccines are extremely effective

I thought you were reasonable-ish but you are going to stick to your narrative regardless. Going to block you because dont need to hear your nonsense when I'm working in it every day
 
Hally said:
You can't just save the 1%, not how societies work sadly. If you could, they would. The government doesn't want to wreck the economy

Nonsense. Testing numbers the same numbers rising rapidly. Just accept you've been talking nonsense

Flu changes, we need to predict those changes. Vaccines are extremely effective

I thought you were reasonable-ish but you are going to stick to your narrative regardless. Going to block you because dont need to hear your nonsense when I'm working in it every day
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The fact that you're woking in it every day creates your narrative. You see the bad side, I get it...and I feel for you. I do not envy you and I praise your work. But the thing is, the entire world does not need to suffer from the fact that 1% is vulnerable to a bad thing. I once worked in a judicial world and wanted to protect humanity and lock up all the bad guys in the world, but that's not how it works. Same goes for medical professionals, they want to cure everyone and do anything to make people healthy. It's in their DNA and I can only praise that. However politicians should not solely listen to that advise, they should look at the broader picture but they didn't because of the corona-fearporn.

The government did not want to wreck the economy, but they did it and they won't turn around now and say: we made a mistake. They need the vaccin as the lighting rod.
 
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Neo95gt said:
Sorry dude, but you’re full of shit. I guess the flu vaccine isn’t effective either?
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In my past few post I have quoted and linked to expert opinions on what we can expect from a coronavirus vaccine. Relaying information that you are not aware of does not make me full of shit?

Here is the effectiveness of the flu vaccine (CDC) for the past 5 years

2014/15 - 19%
2015/16 - 48%
2016/17 - 40%
2017/18 - 38%
2018/19 - 29%

Also did you know that during the 2009 flu pandemic having that years flu vaccine increased your chances of contracting the pandemic strain if you came in contact with it?

And if the flu vaccine strain is the same for 2 years running it becomes infective and can slightly increase your chances of a bad flu if infected?

Both of these facts are verifiable but I guess you won't be interested.

It's certainly not as simple as vaccines are good and anyone with anything bad to say about them is full of shit.
 
IainB2 said:
In my past few post I have quoted and linked to expert opinions on what we can expect from a coronavirus vaccine. Relaying information that you are not aware of does not make me full of shit?

Here is the effectiveness of the flu vaccine (CDC) for the past 5 years

2014/15 - 19%
2015/16 - 48%
2016/17 - 40%
2017/18 - 38%
2018/19 - 29%

Also did you know that during the 2009 flu pandemic having that years flu vaccine increased your chances of contracting the pandemic strain if you came in contact with it?

And if the flu vaccine strain is the same for 2 years running it becomes infective and can slightly increase your chances of a bad flu if infected?

Both of these facts are verifiable but I guess you won't be interested.

It's certainly not as simple as vaccines are good and anyone with anything bad to say about them is full of shit.
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How do they determine its effectiveness? In the lab with controlled samples or from the results in the 'field' ?
 
Public uprising DOES work. A gym in Liverpool, supposed to be closed, was kept open by the owners. So they got fined. So they asked people to crowdfund their fine, and they got 10x more than the fine. So they stay open ready to be fined again.

Result; a U-turn and now all gyms can stay open. (So they shouldn't have been closed in the first place, huh??)

This is what the bars should do, unfortunately - unlike gyms - they have a licence to look after.

Meanwhile, my uprising is this, you don't need to order a meal if you have a soft drink. I have this funny feeling some vodka might magically appear with my coke, let's say it's delivered from the Heavens.
 
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