☣ Coronavirus ☣

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ElrowLovers said:
Actual knowledge is subjective. Everyone can be biased and in these times...the world governments and Mainstream Media are not giving you the objective image.

Never said the deaths didn't happen. Never said the virus is fake.

I'm just looking at the current hospital and death numbers in most European countries...and my conclusion is we are being tricked to keep these measures (perhaps even lockdown areas or whole countries again) with false assumptions until a vaccin is here because they already have spent too much money and political image on that solution.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but to call it complete idiocy. ... Ah well we already had that phase in this thread, I don't feel adressed by it at all.
It seems the whole world (and so this forum too) can be divided into two groups now. The people that stay scared until they get a needle in their arm and the people that choose to live now.
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That's exactly what I've been doing; and most, if not all, show cases are rising again but the death rates are now comparitively low and not rising. What I would like to see is a graph of those getting flu and those dying from flu/pneumonia.
I'll admit that the worst cases of covid are horrible, I've read where patients have had extreme temperatures, their beds saturated in sweat, and coughing like your lungs are exploding, so whatever it takes within reason to stop people getting covid - hand wash, sanitisers, masks where appropriate.
But kingell, let's get back to as normal as can be; let's get those flights on and accept that a small number will sadly die (just like flu, car crashes, through smoking, obesity etc etc), keep our sanitasion up to scratch and see where we are in 6 months.
Clearly if the death figures rose markedly, then that's a different matter. But other than the USA and some other countries; it's not.
 
ElrowLovers said:
True.
But imho keeping nightlife shut has a worse effect than opening up with regulations.
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It really doesn’t. I massively feel for those whose jobs depend on the nightlife industry, and I know the restrictions are affecting some people’s lives on here very directly. But realistically, it is such a high risk activity which employs relatively few people compared to other parts of the hospitality industry, that it is simply not justifiable when you think about the knock on effects it could have on the rest of the economy, jobs and ultimately people’s lives.

Clubbing obviously means a lot to you but from an objective standpoint the cost/benefit ratio really really isn’t there for any kind of mass gathering at the moment.

We will all be able to go to parties again at some point, we will have the rest of our lives to party and it will be brilliant when we can again. But it’s simply not the priority now.
 
Crawleytown said:
It really doesn’t. I massively feel for those whose jobs depend on the nightlife industry, and I know the restrictions are affecting some people’s lives on here very directly. But realistically, it is such a high risk activity which employs relatively few people compared to other parts of the hospitality industry, that it is simply not justifiable when you think about the knock on effects it could have on the rest of the economy, jobs and ultimately people’s lives.

Clubbing obviously means a lot to you but from an objective standpoint the cost/benefit ratio really really isn’t there for any kind of mass gathering at the moment.

We will all be able to go to parties again at some point, we will have the rest of our lives to party and it will be brilliant when we can again. But it’s simply not the priority now.
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This post should close the thread .. ?
 
Me thoughts to. Lets be honest, we're barely 6 months into this in Europe so there needs to be some perspective with all this. Look at what our grandparents etc went through in World Wars, great depression, famines or in country conflicts that lasted many years. What we're going through is nothing really.

It is the younger generations that seem to be pretty selfish in all this from what I have seen in bars, pubs, public transport etc. Makes me worry that if we really had to get down to tough times we really are screwed
 
ElrowLovers said:
But imho keeping nightlife shut has a worse effect than opening up with regulations.
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I would agree.

Except that people do not follow the regulations in the nightlife environment. I see it all the time here in the streets on weekend nights, and judging from some recent photos from Ibiza Town, it's no better on the island.

People aren't socially distancing, they are wearing their masks over their chin instead of mouth and nose, most restaurants aren't recording visitor names and contact data (they are required to do it here in Germany in order to allow contact tracing). Since people do not follow rules and there is no reasonable way to enforce these rules everywhere, this sadly leaves only one way out: keep the clubs shut :(

There is a lot of talk about family celebrations being responsible for a lion's share of new infections (rather than nightlife), but fact is, 40% of new infections here in Germany are from people returning from abroad. They will have come from mostly from vacations/nightlife, and not from family celebration (apart from a few Turks coming back from their homeland).
 
ElrowLovers said:
Yes.
Because the test can be positive for a number of reasons.
1. I HAVE Covid. Well that's a good reason to go in Quarantine...I was just in a plane with 300 others, but hey..I'll do it.
2. I HAVE HAD Covid. No one knows when. I have no symptoms....I cannot call in sick for something I dont feel at this moment. But I need to go in quarantine? My employer won't pay those 10-14 days, so now a week in Ibiza will cost me 3 weeks of vacation days?!
3. I HAVE or HAD Rhino virus or another strain of something and it is a false positive. Again..14 days of quarantine.

So if obligatory testing is part on arrival back is part of recreational travel in the future....yes tourism will suffer greatly.
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A doctor told my brother recently when he took the test because he was unwell that the the results from these“silly” tests aren’t worth the paper their written on!
After that when he got admitted to hospital and started to improve the nurses told him they were bored and had absolutely nothing to do, there was no Covid within the whole hospital!
Digest that when your business is destroyed, your kids can no longer be kids, no schooling and you can’t meet friends to socialise with a bit of music.
I’m somewhere in the middle with it all, don’t really no what to think. I see both sides but something certainly doesn’t add up.
fair play to you Elton, you have your views, I think you are fair in what you post andI agree with some of what you say. Not all but some, that’s the beauty of discussion. I feel it’s daft folk have to insult you because of your views.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion without been called stupid and dangerous!
 
ElrowLovers said:
Because the test can be positive for a number of reasons.
1. I HAVE Covid. Well that's a good reason to go in Quarantine...I was just in a plane with 300 others, but hey..I'll do it.
2. I HAVE HAD Covid.
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The test that sends you to quarantine is a PCR test, not an antibody test. It will be negative if you had the virus in the past but no longer have it. It also shouldn't produce a lot of false positives (otherwise many more people would be in quarantine than is currently the case).
 
BenH said:
A doctor told my brother recently when he took the test because he was unwell that the the results from these“silly” tests aren’t worth the paper their written on!
After that when he got admitted to hospital and started to improve the nurses told him they were bored and had absolutely nothing to do, there was no Covid within the whole hospital!
Digest that when your business is destroyed, your kids can no longer be kids, no schooling and you can’t meet friends to socialise with a bit of music.
I’m somewhere in the middle with it all, don’t really no what to think. I see both sides but something certainly doesn’t add up.
fair play to you Elton, you have your views, I think you are fair in what you post andI agree with some of what you say. Not all but some, that’s the beauty of discussion. I feel it’s daft folk have to insult you because of your views.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion without been called stupid and dangerous!
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As someone mentioned before, they may have a lot less to do in covid wards at the min, but is that luck or due to our actions? (Looking at places that didn't do similar measures are still reporting high case loads. USA reduced measures, hospital admissions went up & came close to exceeding capacity in some areas, and so reintroduced measures)?‍♂️

I understand how hard it is hitting businesses and people, cause, you know I am a person practically stuck in isolation too. But one of the things humanity and people are really bad at is risk assessment; we tend to be overly optimistic (https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-optimism-bias-2795031) and I think we need to be mindful of that before declare we go back to normal.

As for calling people dangerous, while everyone is entitled to their opinion (and crucially that opinion can be ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense - Prof Brian Cox). I have problems with disinformation which is used to mislead and fool people into believing something that is not true.
Eg, the PCR swab check gives false positives by detecting none covid viruses.

I love how some people so easily believe crack pot theories, without the same high rigorous standards of fact checking and peer reviews of the "main stream" facts.


By that I mean do you see many research papers that are _peer reviewed_ and repeatable with the "microchip vaccine" crowd? (From a guy who thinks royal family are alien lizards, the moon is a mind control spaceship and, oh yes, he is the 2nd coming and our new messiah) compared to say this:

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org www.sciencemag.org

End of the day people are free to believe in what they want, but I do feel we are heading for a new dark ages where science isn't trusted and everything we have built falls into ruins because "the magic ritual dance" to keep it working no longer works.?

(I work in IT and sometimes even we have to do the magic turn it off and on dance to get stuff to work ?)
 
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