☣ Coronavirus ☣

[MrHullMysterious]

No I’m simply offering data that has been showing another side to all this.

as for you example. Brazil, no lockdown, Peru (Brazil’s neighbour) strict lockdown.

Not a great difference in the efficacy of the lockdown

Tourist, call all the names you want pal. I think it’s clear who’s acting like a psycopath with personal attacks. I’m simply presenting data. Collected by scientists. if that upsets you just stop reading it?

Wonder if this is part of Russian disinformation system ?

Peru issues been lockdown not followed/and peoples behaviour. But the point you are making is "look Brazil no lock down and its really really bad, but if they did lock down it would make no real difference", which is a false statement.... which you don't seem to see or comprehend.

I'm tapping out ?

 

[The Sun God]

There aren't many cities that size in the world, thats a bit of a specific request. And i'm not claiming to know anything anyone else doesn't. I'm just showing you the data that is contrary to what you think and you're getting upset about it?! seems odd

it's relevant cos it was densely populated cities that took the brunt for obvious reasons so you need comparable data to demonstrate that an alternative model would have worked better

not much use comparing with scattered scandinavian towns

and yeah I get annoyed because it was people who didn't take it seriously who fcked things up for everybody else.

 

[lewistacey]

it's relevant cos it was densely populated cities that took the brunt for obvious reasons so you need comparable data to demonstrate that an alternative model would have worked better

not much use comparing with scattered scandinavian towns

and yeah I get annoyed because it was people who didn't take it seriously who fcked things up for everybody else.

Well you’ve clearly never been to Stockholm. It’s a densely populated capital city

 

[lewistacey]

Wonder if this is part of Russian disinformation system ?

Peru issues been lockdown not followed/and peoples behaviour. But the point you are making is "look Brazil no lock down and its really really bad, but if they did lock down it would make no real difference", which is a false statement.... which you don't seem to see or comprehend.

I'm tapping out ?

I’m providing evidence for everything I’m saying. How about you show some evidence that things would be worse without lockdown. Surely places who didn’t lockdown should have orders of magnitude more deaths?

 

[MrHullMysterious]

I’m providing evidence for everything I’m saying. How about you show some evidence that things would be worse without lockdown. Surely places who didn’t lockdown should have orders of magnitude more deaths?

Have you even thought that Peru or other examples would be far far worse if they didn't have any. What's the demographic of the country, what are the likelihood of them having other diseases and so on.

To me it seems you are either trying to troll people or just in denial about the seriousness of the disease. Like a dog with an old shoe.

When Sweden's health minister basically says we got it wrong, sacrificed our old and vulnerable and didn't prevent a significant hit to the economy either it should give pause to think.

Also bear in mind while Sweden didn't officially lock down, many of its citizens did follow social distancing and other such measures off their own bat to some degree.

Maybe you only want to look at the single line summary or pretty graph that makes the point you are in favour of, but if you actually spend time reading up in depth pieces and own research you'll see more nuances.

But end of the day this is the internet, you can't lead a horse to a keyboard or something ?

 

[The Sun God]

Barcelona =16,000 people per square kilometer
Stockholm = 4,800 people per square kilometer

source: world population review

kinda relevant perhaps...

 

[lewistacey]

it's relevant cos it was densely populated cities that took the brunt for obvious reasons so you need comparable data to demonstrate that an alternative model would have worked better

not much use comparing with scattered scandinavian towns

and yeah I get annoyed because it was people who didn't take it seriously who fcked things up for everybody else.

Well you’ve clearly never been to Stockholm.

Barcelona =16,000 people per square kilometer
Stockholm = 4,800 people per square kilometer

source: world population review

kinda relevant perhaps...

Like I said. There aren’t many cities like Barcelona, but Stockholm isn’t a rural Scandinavian village.
i give up. Let’s all stay inside until no one dies of anything ever again. I’m showing data for everything I’ve said but I’m the one who doesn’t comprehend stuff

couldn’t make it up

 

[lewistacey]

Have you even thought that Peru or other examples would be far far worse if they didn't have any. What's the demographic of the country, what are the likelihood of them having other diseases and so on.

To me it seems you are either trying to troll people or just in denial about the seriousness of the disease. Like a dog with an old shoe.

When Sweden's health minister basically says we got it wrong, sacrificed our old and vulnerable and didn't prevent a significant hit to the economy either it should give pause to think.

Also bear in mind while Sweden didn't officially lock down, many of its citizens did follow social distancing and other such measures off their own bat to some degree.

Maybe you only want to look at the single line summary or pretty graph that makes the point you are in favour of, but if you actually spend time reading up in depth pieces and own research you'll see more nuances.

But end of the day this is the internet, you can't lead a horse to a keyboard or something ?

Tegnell did not say he got it wrong. He said they could have protected the elderly better. So back to my original point. You protect the vulnerable. Banging my head against a brick wall here.
Have a nice day everyone. Let’s get to Ibiza ASAP

 

[The Sun God]

That's right kids.

The REAL data THEY (in the "MSM") don't want YOU to know about.

And whilst you're here please feel free to support my channel with a regular Patreon subscription

 

[lewistacey]

That's right kids.

The REAL data THEY (in the "MSM") don't want YOU to know about.

And whilst you're here please feel free to support my channel with a regular Patreon subscription

Oh wow. A child. This is data from government websites but ok karen

 

[2H76]

If lockdown was not done Spain and Italy would be in a really bad position right now...

I'm not disagreeing, but the likelihood is that the number of deaths would reach a peak as the weakest/oldest/illest members of public can't handle the virus, and then decrease as the rest of us either have no symptoms or in the worst cases survive in hospital with treatment.
But the question is how many more would die until we reach the peak? That's impossible to answer, but if I were 75 with asthma or something, I'd be flaming glad of lockdown; otherwise I might be confined to my house, alone, for the rest of my innings or until there's a vaccine/cure.
Think most countries got it right, certainly Spain and Italy, I'd give them 8/10; maybe higher.
Britain - everything was so belated, I'm sure an earlier and stronger (but shorter) response would have kept the fatalities down...3/10 to 4/10.
What's interesting now is that the new infections appears to be under control despite lockdown largely being removed.
Also that deaths through everything are currently below the seasonal normal (UK).
It's gonna end up like flu; there will be some kind of vaccine, some will get it, a few sadly will die from it. Possibly the best-case senario?

 

[MrHullMysterious]

Tegnell did not say he got it wrong. He said they could have protected the elderly better. So back to my original point. You protect the vulnerable. Banging my head against a brick wall here.
Have a nice day everyone. Let’s get to Ibiza ASAP

But you can't really which is the point. Unless you have care workers living in care homes for months on end without contact with their families. (Which is what a lot ended up doing ?).

Lockdowns and social measures are meant to help break transmission between family groups in the community. While people living their normal lives with just the 'vulnerable' isolating sound good on paper, but not really possible.

Also what is 'vulnerable'? If you get it bad, its kinda late to know. ?‍

My friends aunt died last week from it. Nearly 40, no known conditions, felt a bit 'flu like', taken to hospital and dead few days later ?

It's the asymptomatic masses that are keeping it spreading and hitting those less fortunate.

 

[Ibizapaul]

But you can't really which is the point. Unless you have care workers living in care homes for months on end without contact with their families. (Which is what a lot ended up doing ?).

Lockdowns and social measures are meant to help break transmission between family groups in the community. While people living their normal lives with just the 'vulnerable' isolating sound good on paper, but not really possible.

Also what is 'vulnerable'? If you get it bad, its kinda late to know. ?‍

My friends aunt died last week from it. Nearly 40, no known conditions, felt a bit 'flu like', taken to hospital and dead few days later ?

It's the asymptomatic masses that are keeping it spreading and hitting those less fortunate.

It's examples like this that should keep everyone thinking....

 

[tclubber]

A German family tests positive for Covid-19 after a vacation on Mallorca (link in German).

According to the article, they do not have any symptoms and the virus was detected during a routine test required by an employer. They are pretty sure the infection happened either aboard the airplane or during their stay on Mallorca.

Hope this doesn't get ugly and we will not see an explosion of new infections originating on Mallorca

 

[diver]

My daughter wrote this short article if anyone can relate to it?

Lifting lockdown is limiting women - childcare

Jul 23, 2020 - The lockdown has brought major changes to almost all in society. Now the lifting of the lockdown poses fresh challenges for women as the burden of childcare falls largely in their court, limiting career prospects

lawya.com

 

[Hurr1cane]

No I’m simply offering data that has been showing another side to all this.

The chart you posted re: Brazil and Peru literally says the data is unreliable at the top of the chart... Everyone knows Bolsonaro is full of $hit and has worked against transparency the entire way.

Well you’ve clearly never been to Stockholm.

Like I said. There aren’t many cities like Barcelona, but Stockholm isn’t a rural Scandinavian village.
i give up.

So lets throw Barcelona aside and compare Stockholm to some of its peers then:

Stockholm - Population ~1 million Density 5,000 /km2 --- 2373 deaths (Stockholm County 2.3 million)
Amsterdam - Population 850,000 Density 5,135 /km2 --- did not report by locality
Munich - Population 1.5 million Density 4,736 /km2 --- 2617 (Bavaria pop 13.08 million)
Vienna - Population 1.9 million Density 4,555 /km2 --- 203
Palermo - Population 668,630 Density 4,164 /km2 --- 283 (all of Sicily 5 million)
Seville - Population 703,000 Density 5,022 /km2 --- 1,435 (Andalucia 8.7 million)
Copenhagen - Pop 602,000 Density 6,711 /km2 --- 611 (all of Denmark 5.8 million)

I ran into some challenges as data was typically reported by region and not specifically by city, but the evidence seems pretty clear that Stockholm has performed worse than similarly situated EU cities. The entirety of Bavaria (13 million people), including Munich has a similar number of deaths as Stockholm county (2.3 million people).

The entirety of Andalucia which includes Seville, a city with similar population and density to Stockholm, recorded fewer deaths than Stockholm County despite a population 3-4 larger.

however there are lots of other factors at play too. For example. The use of hydroxychloroquine...

Lets assume there have been no clinical studies that indicate HCQ results in higher rates of death (It does). The graphic is lacking so much information its impossible to actually derive any value from it. There is no definition of No HCQ use or Mixed HCQ use. There is no date to determine when the HCQ use would have occurred. Lets just look at one example:

Spain - listed as No HCQ use, which is flat out wrong. A survey of over 6,000 physicians in 30 countries in April indicated Hydroxychloroquine usage amongst COVID-19 providers is 72% in Spain -- the highest rate of any country in the survey. When other European countries were starting to back away from HCQ in late May, Spain did not. On the date of this article Spain had reported 27,922 deaths. As of the last couple of days they sit at 28,426 deaths. 98% of Spain's deaths occurred when HCQ was still an accepted treatment!

I’m providing evidence for everything I’m saying.

Yep... that explains a lot.

Sorry for the novel ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Kline]

Lockdowns doesn't achieve anything. It just kills the economic output in that area. Spain has not achieved anything. The second closing is due to corruption to save EU and capitalists friends can buy up most of the med for pennies on the euro. Later our friends in the north and other areas in EU bail them all out.

Regarding Sweden, i live there the number is the same as the UK, ES, ITA, and Belgium. Not far off from NL and Ireland either. Most of these nations are multicultural you cannot compare with like say Switzerland or Finland. Regarding regions outside of Stockholm where we got bad clusters and an international airport, the numbers aren't really that worse than nations with low numbers. Nice cherry-picking on cities Madrid got over 8000 dead. Sweden got the same population as Lombardy and how many died there?

Good interview with Tegnell and this is quite frankly the truth. He even admits deaths are high but also point out that Sweden is longer in the epidemic and also other factors like suicide from job losses and such.

 

[JB2008]

Wonder if this is part of Russian disinformation system ?

Someone had to say it, thank you

 

[Hurr1cane]

Nice cherry-picking on cities Madrid got over 8000 dead.

The city of Madrid has a population of 6.6 million people vs 1 million in Stockholm. I didn't include any cities over 2 million or under 500,000 when trying to find reasonable comparisons to Stockholm. I felt this was reasonable but I'm open to critique.

Just for fun, if Madrid had the same death rate there would have been about 6,800 deaths vs the 8,400 experienced. That amounts to 23% excess mortality for Madrid.

Neither is anything to brag about in my opinion.

 

[Neo95gt]

Well enli

Enlighten me then? I said sweden did better and worse than some european countries. Making the point that lockdown doesn't achieve much.

A point now supported by Chris Whitty.

Sweden is not a success story. They are one of the worst performing countries in the world from a fatality % standpoint despite having fewer imported cases from the onset. Their economy still suffered and they didn’t come anywhere close to herd immunity.

Also, it’s not like Sweden was completely open. They didn’t have as strict measures compared to the rest of Europe, but they had social distancing rules. The only reason they got things under control was because the people went above and beyond the rules that the government put in place.

I’m not sure what you mean by “lockdown”, but I generally don’t think you need to close everything up and institute stay at home orders to get things under control. Strict social distancing and face masks will do the trick. But at the time, the situation was dire and some countries absolutely needed to do a full out lockdown. If Spain, Italy, NYC, etc went the Sweden route, it would have been an absolute disaster.