☣ Coronavirus ☣

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soulcompromise said:
I can't. I have issues.. I don't know why but I'm severely uncomfortable flying over the Atlantic Ocean. I might try to one day. Late last week I was thinking of Tulum and Acapulco, but that's not possible either. And there are always travel advisories for anything in México...
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I have exactly the same issue. Hate flying but cope with it. But flying over the ocean gives me the absolute willies. Haven’t done a transatlantic trip for about 13 years before this issue really kicked in. Absolute pain.
 
skoo said:
I have exactly the same issue. Hate flying but cope with it. But flying over the ocean gives me the absolute willies. Haven’t done a transatlantic trip for about 13 years before this issue really kicked in. Absolute pain.
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I went to London with my parents in 2017 (we were leaving right around when Manchester arena was attacked) and I didn't like the feeling of being fully out of control. Similarly, in 2011 or so (I can't remember exactly when) I went to Honolulu and did not like the idea of dying as we flew.

I don't know what my problem is, but those were the feelings I had.

If I really thought about it there wouldn't be a problem. & I was all set for Ibiza. I had booked the room and the flight. It just wasn't my time I guess and I cancelled before the first case of coronavirus was reported.
 
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soulcompromise said:
I went to London with my parents in 2017 (we were leaving right around when Manchester arena was attacked) and I didn't like the feeling of being fully out of control. Similarly, in 2011 or so (I can't remember exactly when) I went to Honolulu and did not like the idea of dying as we flew.

I don't know what my problem is, but those were the feelings I had.

If I really thought about it there wouldn't be a problem. & I was all set for Ibiza. I had booked the room and the flight. It just wasn't my time I guess and I cancelled before the first case of coronavirus was reported.
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This is a super common phobia. Get in to see a doctor and explain. They'll most likely prescribe a mild benzodiazepine or sedative to take an hr before takeoff. You'll be 100% good before you land
 
CasaNegron said:
4am Spanish time equals US politics on Spotlight ;). Maybe Craig is still awake...

Roll call
Hurr1cane is WI
Soulcompromise is CA
I am currently USVI, originally OH

BFalls?
Neo9gt?

Any of you still have hope of squeezing in a fall trip?
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San Francisco over here.

Still planning to squeeze in a trip, but will depend on results of antibody test -- the qualitative ones just became available, but I'm waiting for the quantitative ones (told 1-3 more weeks).

We visit every year for closings in late September, so rarely get peak summer conditions. If things line up, I would jump at the opportunity for an August visit with empty beaches and guaranteed sunsets...but obviously that looks increasingly unlikely with each week that passes.

Re: US politics...I just can't. I pin my hopes on a #CalExit. Anyone can come with us....Washington State, Wisconsin, I think there's a Michigan on here -- get on board.
 
B_Falls said:
This is a super common phobia. Get in to see a doctor and explain. They'll most likely prescribe a mild benzodiazepine or sedative to take an hr before takeoff. You'll be 100% good before you land
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My friend coming home from India ask a local street chemist does he have something to relax him on his flight from Goa to Madrid and then on to Dublin.. all he remembers is coming off the plain at Madrid in a wheelchair.. completely knocked out..lol
 
ElrowLovers said:
www.nationalreview.com

Has Sweden Found the Right Solution to the Coronavirus? | National Review

Unlike other countries, it has so far avoided both isolation and economic ruin.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com

Worth a read, published 2 days ago.

And then if you add this to the mix...IF those numbers are representative....

www.bmj.com

Covid-19: four fifths of cases are asymptomatic, China figures indicate

New evidence has emerged from China indicating that the large majority of coronavirus infections do not result in symptoms. Chinese authorities began publishing daily figures on 1 April on the number of new coronavirus cases that are asymptomatic, with the first day’s figures suggesting that...
www.bmj.com www.bmj.com
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I'd like to ask anyone working in the medical field about their current opinion on sweden's model in comparison to others.

in the quoted piece they had compared sweden to switzerland. back then I said that IMO it's a bad comparison because of the different population density (far bigger in switzerland than in sweden). at the time of publication, switzerland actually did have more covid cases (and deaths too I believe) than sweden.

switzerland had a lockdown (relatively strict, but you could go for walks. it needs to be said the swiss are very responsible people in general) while in sweden we know the lockdown did never really happen.

five or six weeks have passed since then and I went to compare the figures again just now.

as of today, both countries have almost the same number of detected total cases (30k). in switzerland, 1800 have died. double that for sweden.

as of today, shops in switzerland are open again, restaurants etc are slowly opening too.

the growth on new cases in switzerland is super small. two-figure numbers of daily new cases over the course of the past week. in sweden it's between 300-600 new daily cases.

my maybe naive current view is the lockdown really worked in switzerland and people are now going back to work. big events are still prohibited as everywhere else and of course the country will also notice the lockdown period economically. but it basically seems like they've 'beaten' covid. in sweden the cuve just keeps being stable but yeah fine, their economy isn't hit as much. if you compare the curves of the two countries they really are massively different.

I'm still not sure what was the better approach so I'd love to hear other opinions. also because we see that even in the hard-hit places like madrid or NYC we're far from herd immunity.

we might have to compare those numbers again in a month or so.

thoughts?
 
stivi said:
I'd like to ask anyone working in the medical field about their current opinion on sweden's model in comparison to others.

in the quoted piece they had compared sweden to switzerland. back then I said that IMO it's a bad comparison because of the different population density (far bigger in switzerland than in sweden). at the time of publication, switzerland actually did have more covid cases (and deaths too I believe) than sweden.

switzerland had a lockdown (relatively strict, but you could go for walks. it needs to be said the swiss are very responsible people in general) while in sweden we know the lockdown did never really happen.

five or six weeks have passed since then and I went to compare the figures again just now.

as of today, both countries have almost the same number of detected total cases (30k). in switzerland, 1800 have died. double that for sweden.

as of today, shops in switzerland are open again, restaurants etc are slowly opening too.

the growth on new cases in switzerland is super small. two-figure numbers of daily new cases over the course of the past week. in sweden it's between 300-600 new daily cases.

my maybe naive current view is the lockdown really worked in switzerland and people are now going back to work. big events are still prohibited as everywhere else and of course the country will also notice the lockdown period economically. but it basically seems like they've 'beaten' covid. in sweden the cuve just keeps being stable but yeah fine, their economy isn't hit as much. if you compare the curves of the two countries they really are massively different.

I'm still not sure what was the better approach so I'd love to hear other opinions. also because we see that even in the hard-hit places like madrid or NYC we're far from herd immunity.

we might have to compare those numbers again in a month or so.

thoughts?
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Lockdowns are to reduce the R and flatten the peak as it where to stop a tsunami of deaths/hospital admissions.

However I think one side benefit is that when you exit lockdown there are fewer infected people (new daily cases) so the likelihood of bumping into an infected person is lower and thus the time before R goes up over 1 is longer.

Sweden's situation means there are relatively more infected and so at more risk of R going over one sooner. Also they are having more hospitalizations/deaths "up front" which might have been saved by therapeutics or vaccine at a later date.

But their hit to the economy is less.

It's like you said hard to compare due to different population densities etc. Would the swedish approach work in other European countries with high population density? Probably not.

Higher pop density and more poor people (living in cramped conditions) you are going to need some parts of the lockdown to prevent exponential infections. Sweden afaik has quite a high standard of living.

There no simple answer to complex problems ?‍♂️
 
I am still trying to stay positive my rescheduled trip in September might actually happen. Seeing some of the positive things being posted, bars opening etc...it is clear the people of Ibiza want and need the trade...

Maybe not with clubbing, but some nice meals on outside terraces, some beaches and the sunset. And it will so much quieter than usual....might be able to go to Cala Conte and find a spot on the beach! A leisurely few drinks at sunset Ashram without the hoardes....we can dream...

50/50 I'd say at the moment...a lot better odds than a couple of weeks ago...
 
Ibizapaul said:
I am still trying to stay positive my rescheduled trip in September might actually happen. Seeing some of the positive things being posted, bars opening etc...it is clear the people of Ibiza want and need the trade...

Maybe not with clubbing, but some nice meals on outside terraces, some beaches and the sunset. And it will so much quieter than usual....might be able to go to Cala Conte and find a spot on the beach! A leisurely few drinks at sunset Ashram without the hoardes....we can dream...

50/50 I'd say at the moment...a lot better odds than a couple of weeks ago...
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I've put a long-ish post in the german forum about that and yeah, I can still envisage the above for september.
 
I've got a Ryanair flight booked home from Italy on 6th June (which was supposed to be my honeymoon but that's another story!), that I was hoping to transfer to my flight home from Ibiza in September. Not heard a thing. Flight not even cancelled yet. Once flight gets cancelled you can can change it to another on for free....at the moment there is a £30 fee! They are a disgrace...
 
stivi said:
I'd like to ask anyone working in the medical field about their current opinion on sweden's model in comparison to others.

in the quoted piece they had compared sweden to switzerland. back then I said that IMO it's a bad comparison because of the different population density (far bigger in switzerland than in sweden). at the time of publication, switzerland actually did have more covid cases (and deaths too I believe) than sweden.

switzerland had a lockdown (relatively strict, but you could go for walks. it needs to be said the swiss are very responsible people in general) while in sweden we know the lockdown did never really happen.

five or six weeks have passed since then and I went to compare the figures again just now.

as of today, both countries have almost the same number of detected total cases (30k). in switzerland, 1800 have died. double that for sweden.

as of today, shops in switzerland are open again, restaurants etc are slowly opening too.

the growth on new cases in switzerland is super small. two-figure numbers of daily new cases over the course of the past week. in sweden it's between 300-600 new daily cases.

my maybe naive current view is the lockdown really worked in switzerland and people are now going back to work. big events are still prohibited as everywhere else and of course the country will also notice the lockdown period economically. but it basically seems like they've 'beaten' covid. in sweden the cuve just keeps being stable but yeah fine, their economy isn't hit as much. if you compare the curves of the two countries they really are massively different.

I'm still not sure what was the better approach so I'd love to hear other opinions. also because we see that even in the hard-hit places like madrid or NYC we're far from herd immunity.

we might have to compare those numbers again in a month or so.

thoughts?
Click to expand...
I'm and engineer, wife's a nurse, and this this just my opinion:

The "Swedish" model isn't a good comparison for any other country that i'm aware of. Sweden didn't lock down, but they didn't just let the virus run rampant either. They issued social distancing guidelines that some of the population adhered to and some didn't. Their measured response was wholly based on their population's acceptance of risk and their gamble that herd immunity could be obtained with minimal casualties. Basically Sweden traded lives for their economy.

Also, be careful in comparing numbers from one country to another. It's possible that the testing methods/resources are very different, reporting, etc. It's not always apples to apples (ie the Swiss healthcare system might have been more prepared to handle the pandemic and that's why their #s are lower).

I'm of the opinion that what we see now in Sweden is what we're going to get from most countries after they open up. There are going to be infections and outbreaks, but as long as it's below the economic pain threshold (the point at which a country is willing to re-shutdown their economy completely) we;re going to see life return slowly. The largest factors in all of this are going to be population density and political appetite for death.
 
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