A good (sustainable) life
- Thread starter CasaNegron
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The Sun God
Active Member
The Canary Islands have had enough. Will other parts of Spain rise up too...?
tclubber
Active Member
And where would they be without tourism (and evil wealthy foreign retirees buying houses)? They have nothing else to sell except for industrial bananas.
The government they elected is obviously not building enough social housing, not building enough roads, not building enough desalination plants despite getting 40% of its tax revenue from tourist money - and tourists are suddenly to blame? And how comes Canary Islands have the highest unemployment rate in Spain yet tourism operators have to bring in seasonal workers, are locals really that awful at work?
But of course everyone has the right to protest against the industry that creates 40% of all jobs on Canary Islands and generates 32% of the island GDP. And then they will be out protesting against the lack of jobs
It's a good reminder for tourists not to get too attached to specific destinations. There will be always nice places where we and our money are welcome.
The Sun God
Active Member
And where would they be without tourism (and evil wealthy foreign retirees buying houses)? They have nothing else to sell except for industrial bananas.
The government they elected is obviously not building enough social housing, not building enough roads, not building enough desalination plants despite getting 40% of its tax revenue from tourist money - and tourists are suddenly to blame? And how comes Canary Islands have the highest unemployment rate in Spain yet tourism operators have to bring in seasonal workers, are locals really that awful at work?
But of course everyone has the right to protest against the industry that creates 40% of all jobs on Canary Islands and generates 32% of the island GDP. And then they will be out protesting against the lack of jobs
It's a good reminder for tourists not to get too attached to specific destinations. There will be always nice places where we and our money are welcome.
1. The protests were not against tourism. They were against tourist excess and a callous industry that doesn't care. Learn the difference.
2. They were also a cry of desperation from a community struggling with property rents, inflated by digital nomads or other outsiders.
3. One of my best friends works in film production/animation in Las Palmas. There are creative industries which have nothing to do with bananas or the usual stereotypes. I will listen to what she says over casual tourists who know sweet fck all about living in Spain.
4. Whilst govt can play a role, ultimately this is the product of greed and an unsustainable tourism model.
5. Arrogant tourists treating holiday destinations like some glorified brothel are the problem which is why locals spit in your beer.
tclubber
Active Member
That's called supply and demand. When everyone wants to live in a place, rents go up. You have the same situation in Munich or Vienna, without any "tourist excesses". There are quite a few places in Europe where I wouldn't mind living but cannot afford the rent. The rents in my city are going up as well. Never had the idea to blame "outsiders" for that. It's just that when you live in a great place to live, others want to live there too and that's driving rents up.
I trust she was born in the Canaries and her studio only employs locals and not those evil "outsiders" who drive up housing costs
Of course the govt plays a role. It doesn't construct enough social housing and it obviously doesn't encourage private construction of cheap housing. The government is so bad at it that hoteliers are offering to build houses for their employees.
Just an example of stupid anti-tourism regulations - in the Canaries, it's now forbidden to use newly built homes as holiday rentals, a house must be at least 10 years old for that. So it's okay to buy an old house, throw out its residents and turn it into a holiday rental, but if an investor wants to build new villas for holiday rentals (thus not removing existing property from the local housing market), it's now a no-no. How is that going to help against the housing crisis?
And arrogant locals treating tourists as cash cows and demanding to "tax the tourists" every time their govt screws up are the reason why many tourists couldn't care less about them. If I pay for something as a tourist, I expect something in return. But tourist taxes are just a money grab, with nothing provided in return.
The Sun God
Active Member
That's called supply and demand. When everyone wants to live in a place, rents go up. You have the same situation in Munich or Vienna, without any "tourist excesses". There are quite a few places in Europe where I wouldn't mind living but cannot afford the rent. The rents in my city are going up as well. Never had the idea to blame "outsiders" for that. It's just that when you live in a great place to live, others want to live there too and that's driving rents up.
I trust she was born in the Canaries and her studio only employs locals and not those evil "outsiders" who drive up housing costs
Of course the govt plays a role. It doesn't construct enough social housing and it obviously doesn't encourage private construction of cheap housing. The government is so bad at it that hoteliers are offering to build houses for their employees.
Just an example of stupid anti-tourism regulations - in the Canaries, it's now forbidden to use newly built homes as holiday rentals, a house must be at least 10 years old for that. So it's okay to buy an old house, throw out its residents and turn it into a holiday rental, but if an investor wants to build new villas for holiday rentals (thus not removing existing property from the local housing market), it's now a no-no. How is that going to help against the housing crisis?
And arrogant locals treating tourists as cash cows and demanding to "tax the tourists" every time their govt screws up are the reason why many tourists couldn't care less about them. If I pay for something as a tourist, I expect something in return. But tourist taxes are just a money grab, with nothing provided in return.
so you think it's ok for the market to completely fk local people over in the name of supply & demand. Ok. no prizes for guessing who you vote for... some people thankfully still have a conscience. it's bad enough here in Barcelona but supply & demand on an island... think about it!!! where are people supposed to live? on an inflatable shark? There's little scope for much infrastructure expansion in areas of natural beauty, forests, agriculture, mountains, volcanoes... Tenerife for instance has over 1m inhabitants. You're not thinking this through
under Spanish law hotels are obliged to tax all tourists to that region. nothing arrogant about it. it helps the local economy. nobody is opposed to anyone moving in to meet skills shortages. it's vital. People do object to opportunists just taking advantage of the system who add nothing to local economy or culture.
"nothing provided in return"... wow, run that one past the ambulance crews, cops, roadworkers, people clearing your shit off the beach
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tclubber
Active Member
"The market" gives people jobs and opportunities, gives the government extra taxes it can spend on common good, but drives local prices up (not just property). It has advantages and it has drawbacks. I wouldn't call this "completely fking local people up".
Anyone who spends money adds to the local economy. Maybe some poor migrants who work here but send their earnings to their home countries aren't contributing enough, but I understand tourists and digital nomads are spending lots of money.
Exactly the same services are provided to locals, who don't pay the tourist tax. The tourist tax is just an opportunistic rip-off, because it is politically easier to tax tourists than to tax locals.
jimmiz
Well-Known Member
The locals pay a lot of taxes to have there hospitals and police services complitly overbooked by tourists who, in a lot of cases, are acting like uneducated idiots.
What the locals want isn't the end of the tourism, they want the end of the excess of mass tourism.
I come to ibiza since 30 years, I'm friend with a lot of ibicencos, and what they say is "enough".
The Sun God
Active Member
Trust me Spain pays a LOT of tax. Try being freelance or autonoma self-employed... yes there are still cheeky mechanics and plumbers but the old days when everyone asked for efectivo only are dying out in the digital age. the state knows everything.
And yes I get you just want a hassle-free suntan. As do most tourists. But you gotta consider the bigger picture.
Uncontrolled capitalism isn't just an abstract debating point. it's wreaking havoc across the country and tearing up communities. And that is how extremism starts...
matter
Active Member
Yet if Brits moan about being priced out by immigration, they’re just thick racists.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
It's not foreigners battling first time buyers for the flats round about me.
CasaNegron
Well-Known Member
tclubber
Active Member
I thought police services were overbooked by criminals? With the police seemingly more concerned about villa parties than about robberies, no wonder crime is rampant, and with it, crime victims who seek help from police. But that's the way "the locals" want it, it seems
As for Spanish hospitals, I thought they cost money to tourists, am I wrong here? Are Spanish taxpayers providing tourists with free hospital care?
diver
Well-Known Member
ASB really affects people’s day to day lives, i can see why they crack down on Villa Parties.I thought police services were overbooked by criminals? With the police seemingly more concerned about villa parties than about robberies, no wonder crime is rampant, and with it, crime victims who seek help from police. But that's the way "the locals" want it, it seems
As for Spanish hospitals, I thought they cost money to tourists, am I wrong here? Are Spanish taxpayers providing tourists with free hospital care?
Can you genuinely not see how on an island with a population of 160,000, 2 million visitors would disrupt hospitals and emergency personnel?I thought police services were overbooked by criminals? With the police seemingly more concerned about villa parties than about robberies, no wonder crime is rampant, and with it, crime victims who seek help from police. But that's the way "the locals" want it, it seems
As for Spanish hospitals, I thought they cost money to tourists, am I wrong here? Are Spanish taxpayers providing tourists with free hospital care?
tclubber
Active Member
The 2 million visitors are not there all at the same time. And when tourism provides 84% of an island's GDP, tourist numbers should be taken into account when planning hospitals. If it was not a problem building an autobahn for tourists, it shouldn't be a problem having enough hospitals both for locals and for tourists.
If hospitals are such a bottleneck, why does the government of the Balearic Islands promote health tourism? Those people go straight into the health care system instead of partying around, thus putting a much higher stress onto hospitals and clinics than an average tourist does.
jimmiz
Well-Known Member
Nace un movimiento en Ibiza para replicar las manifestaciones de Canarias y exigir un límite a la masificación turística
Las imágenes que corrieron como la pólvora en redes sociales y en medios de comunicación de las masivas manifestaciones en las Islas Canarias contra la masificación turística con el lema #canariasnosevende han removido a muchos ibicencos e ibicencas que consideran que los problemas de la isla...
www.noudiari.es
I would imagine Ibiza’s situation could well be worse than the Canaries as it’s such a small island. I wonder what they mean by ‘quality tourism’ though. Tourists may bring in huge amounts of cash but I guess that doesn’t filter down enough if people can’t afford to live there. Would quality tourism change that?Nace un movimiento en Ibiza para replicar las manifestaciones de Canarias y exigir un límite a la masificación turística
Las imágenes que corrieron como la pólvora en redes sociales y en medios de comunicación de las masivas manifestaciones en las Islas Canarias contra la masificación turística con el lema #canariasnosevende han removido a muchos ibicencos e ibicencas que consideran que los problemas de la isla...
The Sun God
Active Member
I'd guess it means the people who go to Corsica, Sardinia, Menorca, Tossa de Mar (*these are not without their own issues either though)
Obviously there needs to be less dependency on tourism overall and - without pretending to have any expertise - perhaps more support for the arts, marine biology, university research, tech, science, green/renewables, entrepreneurs, local manufacturing, locally sourced food & textiles? Personally I would turn the entire West End into cheap accommodation for key workers. A lot of vested interests will of course fight to prevent any change or progress. Always the same.
You can see that quite a few people who write on this forum don't really give a shit about the island (or Spain in general), the sad reality. It's just a holiday playground without any consequence for you. And that is the monster that has been created over many decades.