VIP culture

Dirk

Dirk

Well-Known Member
I know this has been done to death in other threads, but thought it worthwhile to have a specific thread to gather people's views.

Personally I hate the whole VIP thing and think it is absolute nonsense. It has nothing to do with the original ethos of Ibiza and spoils the atmosphere in clubs. It also attracts completely the wrong type of people, with events and music being tailored to attract these sort of people. They then spill over to more underground nights and dilute them. If this problem isn't addressed it will be the death of Ibiza as we have known it.

Good to see Cox also recognising this:

http://www.mixmag.net/read/carl-cox-reckons-a-vip-culture-has-spoilt-ibiza-news
 
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I'm fine with VIP and do it on occasion. Can you name a way its directly affected you negatively? Why does it bother you so much?

How do you get the right to say there is something wrong with enjoying a table and a place to sit in a club instead of being mashed in the middle of an borderline unsafe crowd at Pacha (Guetta) or Amnesia (Music On). They've had VIP tables in Ibiza since i've been going in 1996 so not like this is a new thing.
 
I'm not really bothered what other people do in clubs as i'm usually having fun myself. I know it's a bugbear of people but i don't see, if your preference is to be in the moshpit with other likeminded people, that someone sitting upstairs drinking from a bottle of vodka that they have paid for, spoils your own enjoyment.

I've done VIP @ Pacha a couple of times, i ALWAYS buy the upstairs tickets for Amnesia but that's because i'm 42 now and i like a bit of room occasionally and a cooler place to chill out. I've been going to Ibiza since 1998 and i've done YEARS of being crushed and barged and stood on while grinning from ear to ear and waving my arms around (and talking drivel to people near me) but if i still want to go clubbing then nowadays i like a bit of comfort, i tend to mostly drink (not as many naughty chemicals now obviously) and as i'm a bit older i have more disposable income than i did in my early 20s

I spent a lot of my formative clubbing years standing in fields in the middle of nowhere and i ruined several pairs of trainers at nights in the dump that was the Camden Palace where you COULD literally stick to the floor it was that minging

My idea of hell is to go to a rammed Music On/Enter (not my kind of thing at all) a packed Pacha for Guetta or an equally horrific "underground night" (DULL DULL DULL) or ANYTHING in Sankeys (dump) so i completely avoid those places and the nights with music i won't like. I certainly wouldn't go to Pacha, Amnesia or Ushuaia and tut at the people in the VIP area because they were "ruining" my night.

I've said it a few times on here, this particular forum suffers from a few posters trying to be a bit "too cool for school" and coming across as a bit arrogant and snooty when discussing various club nights and musical genres. Not everyone likes "underground music" and wants to go on a 6 hour musical journey in a club that they can then bore people to death with after the event. Most people want to get loaded on their poison of choice, have a boogie in the best clubs in the world, a laugh with their mates and take some photographic memories home with them and if other people enjoying themselves (within reason) affects your night negatively, then i would suggest you weren't having much fun in the first place.
 
Different horses for different courses - I too enjoy the dance floor and I wouldn't trade it for a VIP table even if that would mean queuing 15 mins for a drink but I can understand people wanting to avoid being constantly pushed or someone stepping constantly on their feet. To be honest I didn't feel like the VIP crowds in Pacha or Amnesia are less contributing to the atmosphere, Ushuaia is a different story though.
I still believe the 'selfies' and generally speaking the smart phones culture have contributed to a much greater degree to ruining the vibe in the clubs - I still remember the days when cameras were not allowed in Space and nothing would beat the atmosphere back then.
 
dand said:
Different horses for different courses - I too enjoy the dance floor and I wouldn't trade it for a VIP table even if that would mean queuing 15 mins for a drink but I can understand people wanting to avoid being constantly pushed or someone stepping constantly on their feet. To be honest I didn't feel like the VIP crowds in Pacha or Amnesia are less contributing to the atmosphere, Ushuaia is a different story though.
I still believe the 'selfies' and generally speaking the smart phones culture have contributed to a much greater degree to ruining the vibe in the clubs - I still remember the days when cameras were not allowed in Space and nothing would beat the atmosphere back then.
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I get the whole selfie and selfie stick backlash but that's just a society thing, it's not an Ibiza thing. People take pictures of their food in restaurants and of themselves on a bus or train going to work! Everyone has a high quality camera/video camera on them 24/7 nowadays so if the selfie generation annoy you so much then just ignore them. If people taking photos ruins your night then you may as well stop going out because it's everywhere and it's not going to stop
 
DelMarSunset said:
I'm not really bothered what other people do in clubs as i'm usually having fun myself. I know it's a bugbear of people but i don't see, if your preference is to be in the moshpit with other likeminded people, that someone sitting upstairs drinking from a bottle of vodka that they have paid for, spoils your own enjoyment.

I've done VIP @ Pacha a couple of times, i ALWAYS buy the upstairs tickets for Amnesia but that's because i'm 42 now and i like a bit of room occasionally and a cooler place to chill out. I've been going to Ibiza since 1998 and i've done YEARS of being crushed and barged and stood on while grinning from ear to ear and waving my arms around (and talking drivel to people near me) but if i still want to go clubbing then nowadays i like a bit of comfort, i tend to mostly drink (not as many naughty chemicals now obviously) and as i'm a bit older i have more disposable income than i did in my early 20s

I spent a lot of my formative clubbing years standing in fields in the middle of nowhere and i ruined several pairs of trainers at nights in the dump that was the Camden Palace where you COULD literally stick to the floor it was that minging

My idea of hell is to go to a rammed Music On/Enter (not my kind of thing at all) a packed Pacha for Guetta or an equally horrific "underground night" (DULL DULL DULL) or ANYTHING in Sankeys (dump) so i completely avoid those places and the nights with music i won't like. I certainly wouldn't go to Pacha, Amnesia or Ushuaia and tut at the people in the VIP area because they were "ruining" my night.

I've said it a few times on here, this particular forum suffers from a few posters trying to be a bit "too cool for school" and coming across as a bit arrogant and snooty when discussing various club nights and musical genres. Not everyone likes "underground music" and wants to go on a 6 hour musical journey in a club that they can then bore people to death with after the event. Most people want to get loaded on their poison of choice, have a boogie in the best clubs in the world, a laugh with their mates and take some photographic memories home with them and if other people enjoying themselves (within reason) affects your night negatively, then i would suggest you weren't having much fun in the first place.
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Nothing to add, you've said it all from my point of view.
With the minor exception that I do not see this as an issue in this forum.
 
Cool1g said:
I'm fine with VIP and do it on occasion. Can you name a way its directly affected you negatively? Why does it bother you so much?

How do you get the right to say there is something wrong with enjoying a table and a place to sit in a club instead of being mashed in the middle of an borderline unsafe crowd at Pacha (Guetta) or Amnesia (Music On). They've had VIP tables in Ibiza since i've been going in 1996 so not like this is a new thing.
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VIP culture has killed the atmosphere in clubs, this has a negative impact on what I used to experience and what I now experience. Why would you choose to go to a club to sit? That isn't what it is about at all.

I don't get the right to say there is something wrong, my personal opinion is the whole culture of VIP has taken clubbing back to the days before house music where you got a seat and went on the dance floor occasionally but mostly drank. If I want to sit, chat and drink I will go to a decent bar that plays music, not a club.
 
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DelMarSunset said:
I'm not really bothered what other people do in clubs as i'm usually having fun myself. I know it's a bugbear of people but i don't see, if your preference is to be in the moshpit with other likeminded people, that someone sitting upstairs drinking from a bottle of vodka that they have paid for, spoils your own enjoyment.

I've done VIP @ Pacha a couple of times, i ALWAYS buy the upstairs tickets for Amnesia but that's because i'm 42 now and i like a bit of room occasionally and a cooler place to chill out. I've been going to Ibiza since 1998 and i've done YEARS of being crushed and barged and stood on while grinning from ear to ear and waving my arms around (and talking drivel to people near me) but if i still want to go clubbing then nowadays i like a bit of comfort, i tend to mostly drink (not as many naughty chemicals now obviously) and as i'm a bit older i have more disposable income than i did in my early 20s

I spent a lot of my formative clubbing years standing in fields in the middle of nowhere and i ruined several pairs of trainers at nights in the dump that was the Camden Palace where you COULD literally stick to the floor it was that minging

My idea of hell is to go to a rammed Music On/Enter (not my kind of thing at all) a packed Pacha for Guetta or an equally horrific "underground night" (DULL DULL DULL) or ANYTHING in Sankeys (dump) so i completely avoid those places and the nights with music i won't like. I certainly wouldn't go to Pacha, Amnesia or Ushuaia and tut at the people in the VIP area because they were "ruining" my night.

I've said it a few times on here, this particular forum suffers from a few posters trying to be a bit "too cool for school" and coming across as a bit arrogant and snooty when discussing various club nights and musical genres. Not everyone likes "underground music" and wants to go on a 6 hour musical journey in a club that they can then bore people to death with after the event. Most people want to get loaded on their poison of choice, have a boogie in the best clubs in the world, a laugh with their mates and take some photographic memories home with them and if other people enjoying themselves (within reason) affects your night negatively, then i would suggest you weren't having much fun in the first place.
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I can assure you I am not trying to be 'too cool for school' if anything, I would argue paying £200 for a seat and drinking grey goose vodka hit that nail on the head?

Ibiza used to be a relatively unpopular place for a while which you frequented for the reason of meeting like minded people who were really into music. It was a secret amongst those in the know, it was far more liberal.

The commercialisation has spoiled it, this isn't arrogance, this is the truth.

I just wish all the EDM and Guetta lot had found somewhere else for their VIP culture and hadn't hijacked my world.

If you can't see the difference VIP culture has made, you have been doing it wrong.
 
Dirk Bigler said:
I can assure you I am not trying to be 'too cool for school' if anything, I would argue paying £200 for a seat and drinking grey goose vodka hit that nail on the head?

Ibiza used to be a relatively unpopular place for a while which you frequented for the reason of meeting like minded people who were really into music. It was s secret amongst those in the know, it was far more liberal.

The commercialisation has spoiled it, this isn't arrogance, this is the truth.

I just wish all the EDM and Guetta lot had found somewhere else for their VIP culture and hadn't hijacked my world.

If you can't see the difference VIP culture has made, you have been doing it wrong.
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I didn't mean you specifically BUT i could easily spend a couple of hundred Euros on drinks so why not get a few of you and have a place to chill out and relax as well?

Times move on and there are a lot of things i used to do 20 years ago that aren't possible any more or are completely different so you either adapt or just stop doing it altogether and do something else instead.

I can see the difference the VIP culture has made but as there isn't much i can do about it what's the point of moaning about it?

Also you say that your opinion that commercialism has spoiled it isn't arrogance but in the very next sentence say that all the new, younger "EDM lot" had ruined YOUR world??? lol how arrogant is that?

It's a popular holiday island and isn't exclusive to you! "Your world" consists of memories you have from over 10 years ago minimum and complaining about how things aren't as good as they used to be is something that happens with EVERY generation. That attitude goes completely against the whole ideal that you are harking back to 20 odd years ago when the dance floor was all inclusive and everyone was the same.

If you don't like the VIP thing then don't go into the VIP section, or dance with your back to it :p
 
DelMarSunset said:
I didn't mean you specifically BUT i could easily spend a couple of hundred Euros on drinks so why not get a few of you and have a place to chill out and relax as well?

Times move on and there are a lot of things i used to do 20 years ago that aren't possible any more or are completely different so you either adapt or just stop doing it altogether and do something else instead.

I can see the difference the VIP culture has made but as there isn't much i can do about it what's the point of moaning about it?

Also you say that your opinion that commercialism has spoiled it isn't arrogance but in the very next sentence say that all the new, younger "EDM lot" had ruined YOUR world??? lol how arrogant is that?

It's a popular holiday island and isn't exclusive to you! "Your world" consists of memories you have from over 10 years ago minimum and complaining about how things aren't as good as they used to be is something that happens with EVERY generation. That attitude goes completely against the whole ideal that you are harking back to 20 odd years ago when the dance floor was all inclusive and everyone was the same.

If you don't like the VIP thing then don't go into the VIP section, or dance with your back to it :p
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I personally don't think giving my point of view is arrogant and haven't resorted to personal name calling at any point. The whole EDM scene is as far removed from what I believe is a proper experience as you can get. Entry level music with drops every 2 minutes and fireworks to keeps people interested. Calling someone arrogant for sharing their own opinion and trying to have healthy debate on a forum isn't very nice IMO.

I don't think you are quite getting it. As Carl Cox said in his interview ' Everyone used to be together when they went out and on the same dancefloor' Everyone also used to go to dance and create an atmosphere, the number of 'tourists' who now go to clubs and just stand or walk about kills it, attracted by the VIP culture and not the music.

In another sentence you advise that you can see the difference VIP culture has made, but what can you do about it? Bit of a mixed message from yourself. Do we just all accept what happens to ourselves in life and don't bother discussing our experience? I am from a generation where if we didn't like something we changed it.

I first went to Ibiza in 1981, so feel I am allowed to comment on what I feel is the good and the bad. I was at a party in Mexico in January and the same vibe is there, maybe you should try and experience something like that and then you can positively discuss or debate rather than resorting to personal name calling.
 
Dirk Bigler said:
I personally don't think giving my point of view is arrogant and haven't resorted to personal name calling at any point. The whole EDM scene is as far removed from what I believe is a proper experience as you can get. Entry level music with drops every 2 minutes and fireworks to keeps people interested. Calling someone arrogant for sharing their own opinion and trying to have healthy debate on a forum isn't very nice IMO.

I don't think you are quite getting it. As Carl Cox said in his interview ' Everyone used to be together when they went out and on the same dancefloor' Everyone also used to go to dance and create an atmosphere, the number of 'tourists' who now go to clubs and just stand or walk about kills it, attracted by the VIP culture and not the music.

In another sentence you advise that you can see the difference VIP culture has made, but what can you do about it? Bit of a mixed message from yourself. Do we just all accept what happens to ourselves in life and don't bother discussing our experience? I am from a generation where if we didn't like something we changed it.

I first went to Ibiza in 1981, so feel I am allowed to comment on what I feel is the good and the bad. I was at a party in Mexico in January and the same vibe is there, maybe you should try and experience something like that and then you can positively discuss or debate rather than resorting to personal name calling.
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I've not resorted to personal name calling I just think you are being a little precious about the whole thing. I've actually made a lot of valid points most of which you've completely ignored. I actually agree with some of the things you say but it obviously doesn't annoy me as much as it does you seeing as it's brought up here by people (including you) ad nauseum

I read the interview by Cox and although again I agreed with some of what he said I think it's a bit rich him complaining about the whole VIP thing considering he was one of the first DJs to start demanding 6 figures, private jets and/or helicopter flights for a 3 hour set. I'm betting that he earns similar if not more than Guetta/Avicci/Axwell etc do for their seasons in Ibiza
 
Not too sure what your valid points have been that I have ignored, but if Guetta/Avicci/Axwell are your thing, we are coming at this from two completely different view points. I therefore don't think you will really be able to understand where I am coming from.
 
Dirk Bigler said:
Not too sure what your valid points have been that I have ignored, but if Guetta/Avicci/Axwell are your thing, we are coming at this from two completely different view points. I therefore don't think you will really be able to understand where I am coming from.
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They're not my thing at all but it's completely irrelevant anyway.

You must be in your 40s now so of course clubbing in Ibiza has changed beyond all recognition from when you started doing it. There were a lot of social and society changes that happened when you were in your twenties that people 20 or 30 years older than you hated and couldn't understand, it didn't make them wrong and your generation right though did it? The whole VIP thing may have ruined your clubbing experience so there is a REALLY simple solution... Either don't go clubbing or go and don't enter the VIP area lol
 
You still aren't getting it. Not being disrespectful but I would find it difficult to get someone to understand my view point who thinks that David Guetta at Pacha is the epitome of a fully rounded experience.
 
Dirk Bigler said:
You still aren't getting it. Not being disrespectful but I would find it difficult to get someone to understand my view point who thinks that David Guetta at Pacha is the epitome of a fully rounded experience.
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Lol I've never been to Guetta at Pacha in fact I've actually said its my idea of hell. You have completely ignored every point I've made and you're just repeating yourself and saying that I "don't get it"

The VIP "thing" has ruined clubbing for YOU. It has totally changed and ruined the atmosphere in clubs for YOU

There are literally thousands of people out in Ibiza every day and night that couldn't give a toss about whether you are having fun or not or whether you approve of their choice of drink and/or seat. The clubs are busier than ever before, Ibiza visitor numbers are up and a tiny, tiny minority who tut at the whole VIP thing aren't going to make the slightest bit of difference to a bunch of mates who decided to save up and treat themselves to a special night out.

We are both a similar age and I'm sorry to tell you this mate but we aren't the clubs main target audience anymore. You can easily solve the problem you seem to have with others enjoying themselves in a VIP area... Don't go!
 
Sorry, but every response you make further reinforces to me that you just don't get it. To help me respond and help to build a picture, please share your musical genre and DJ tastes. Where do you go in Ibiza? What would be your perfect night?
 
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