The public sector workers here in the USA don't do or work as hard as needed in some cases. They have job security and some work and treat the public like they are doing you a favor instead of them doing their job. I think Police, firefighters and yes teachers put in a lot of work. I would give them a pay raise and protect their retirement. The rest of the lot are meh. If you manage or run a company or government the easy thing to do when trying to cut cost is look at your biggest cost which are salaries and benefits. Then say cut those by 10% is just plain lazy and cold hearted. Looking at making things more efficient is too much work for the lazy so they cut salary and benefits for the worker bees. The politicians don't take a cut in pay, pensions or benefits. They are suppose to represent the people but the have created their own class in government and get rich from it.
Uk strikes
- Thread starter Buckley
- Start date
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
Everyone isn't contributing, though. Everyone isn't in it together, much as Cameron would tell us. The Tories it seems are succeeding in 'divide and conquer'. Rather than public vs private, this should be about the very rich vs everyone else. I'd start by culling the pensions of MPs (if it's good enough for the goose...), turning profits made to propped up banks back to the public and asking why stuff like this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/nov/16/young-jobseekers-work-pay-unemployment) goes on when some of the companies involved are making massive profits?
you know what the irony of yr rants about company profits, is that the majority of these profits get fed back into peoples pensions.
traditionally back in the olden days, landowners voted tories. so technically, anyone who owns a property is a closet tory.
The man has a very valid point.
...and this is an interesting one. I don't think homeowners are to blame at all. The system is to blame and the rental market is sooo $hit at the mo.
What's the alternative?
I don't think being a home owner makes me a closet Tory though. It makes me extremely lucky in a really unfair society.
Who knows if I'll be saying the same thing when hyper inflation or deflation takes hold though?
Anyway - this has naff all to do with the public sector protest in my view. Blaming the people on the ground is extremely short sighted.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
I own a property (2 bedroom flat, if you must know), though I was lucky to buy at the time I did (or I would have been priced out).
Perhaps you need to look at the nature of land/property ownership to understand the problem? You have people able to buy far more land and property than they need and that land and property is passed down through the generations, effectively locking anyone else out now unless they're very rich.
Philosophically, I'm not really sure why people should be allowed more than a fair share of 'land'. After all, who grants land? These are the sort of questions that need to be dealt with to solve the very real inequalities here. With resources become scarcer, do we give all to those who can pay (thus denying some any) or do we sod capitalism and think more in terms of rationing?
Perhaps you need to look at the nature of land/property ownership to understand the problem? You have people able to buy far more land and property than they need and that land and property is passed down through the generations, effectively locking anyone else out now unless they're very rich.
Philosophically, I'm not really sure why people should be allowed more than a fair share of 'land'. After all, who grants land? These are the sort of questions that need to be dealt with to solve the very real inequalities here. With resources become scarcer, do we give all to those who can pay (thus denying some any) or do we sod capitalism and think more in terms of rationing?
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it has everything to do with th protests. if the bank didnt lend 100% mortgages to people who couldnt afford them, add to that McDooms spending binge before said sub prime debts went bad and lehman brothers was left to go bust, we wouldnt be in the **** we're in.
all that cash written off. just like that.
exactly.
...and yes, you're absolutely right.
but having a home doesn't make me complicit in these decisions.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree with the above more. Keeping afloat these last 3 years has been hand-to-mouth at best and everything on the line for SME owners all of whom have had their pensions raided through the back door with no recourse and outrageous personal taxation rates when you look at the sorry joke what the average person gets back for it all is in this country.
No-one can afford index-linked pensions outside the public sector. And whilst they are in work half the time private sector workers have no job security either. There is just not enough to go round with all the hands in the till and everyone is going to have to lose some of what they expected to have for the choices they made. Public sector included
!As to the bankers, they understand more than anyone the number of millions of £ it's going to take per capita to maintain their standard of living through retirement in UK down the line. They all helped set the conditions for this so they would know ! That's why they cannot stop TAKING - fear of it all catching up with them. As for the rest of us, well I'd rather go live a subsistence life as a monk or just work in a war zone than end up living on state pension in the UK. Time to practice my Ommmms ?
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
Erm, it's up to you to defend your pension from those that would steal it, no matter what sector you work in. Be angry. Take to the streets and riot if necessary. The fact that people in the private sector didn't create havoc when their funds were stolen isn't a reason for the public sector sitting back and taking it!
As I said, this needs to be re-framed as the very rich vs everyone else rather than public vs private. The wealth is there - tied up in big houses or in plots of land, etc - it's just a matter of who owns it! I say take it back; we deserve a fair cut of the pie, rather than the widening gap between rich and poor.
As I said, this needs to be re-framed as the very rich vs everyone else rather than public vs private. The wealth is there - tied up in big houses or in plots of land, etc - it's just a matter of who owns it! I say take it back; we deserve a fair cut of the pie, rather than the widening gap between rich and poor.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
WeLuvIbiza
Active Member
The sub prime fiasco was a catalyst for what is about to unfold, not the cause. We have been living in a bubble economy since the early 80's, it was unsustainable and the wheels were always going to fall off.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
How do you defend your pension from pension fund administrators mis-managing investments through exposure to falling markets with no "Government Guarantee" sitting behind returns ? Or funding caps being introduced which limit the size of your pension pot being introduced before punitive tax kicks in (making it pointless having money in a pension to begin with) ?
All of this is about a package of measures introduced by both Labour and Coalition governments so there is nowhere to go. The private sector (especially business owners) cannot strike against government measures effectively - they can only vote. And if all parties are united against them as a soft target for a raid there is nowhere to go apart from sophisticated tax planning. Which makes these people public enemy number one in the general man's eyes. There is no winning for these people, who are the life blood of the UK economy - always have been.
Nothing to do with big plots of land either - the demand for homes is where there are jobs, shops and facilities. People looking for free houses in rural areas where this "land" is located rarely have the intention of finding a 9-5 ... more like a free living with some cash-in-hand
!!!!You'll also find a lot of UK land and property especially in London is owned by foreigners, so taking that back if it's unused as a second home I have no problem with. Big occupied houses are a full-time often bankrupting job for their owners. That's their lifestyle choice. Inequality will not be solved by taking "land" from the rich and giving it to the "poor". The "rich" have money tied up in commodities and metals etc but also mainly in financial products and in stocks and shares - i.e. UK plc !
Oh - and the govt takes 40% of your wealth when you die anywhere in the world just because you're British. Having taxed you on the income you earned to buy it. So your heirs get maybe 30p in the £ ? The public sector has had the rest !!!!!!! And people are still complaining that it's not enough - tax the rich more !!!! So they just take more to cover it !!!!!! Flawed thinking. Sorry !
No wonder people in UK are so paranoid about wealth - unless they work in the public sector and are partly shielded from the financial realities of the rest of the population - in which case they likely will not starve. The rest of us who don't join the money grab society face it as a bleak possibility for the future every day. We just don't think about it that often - it's too depressing !
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Johnny Vodka;1402721[B said:
What are you on about? "Stolen pensions"? EH???
Do you know where private sector pension contributions come from?
In 2008 and i had to sit down with staff and ask them if they wanted us to continue putting money in their pension each month or not as work was drying up and there wasn't enough money to keep paying the contributions at the current levels.
They all agreed that they would rather forgo the pension contributions until the workload improved to ensure their jobs remained secure. No riots or protests. Just common sense.
Who were we supposed to protest at?
Unbelievable.....I'm speechless!!
Do you think the bankers were to blame?
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Agree. There is a generation which has "taken" for themselves, and for the next 2 generations too. The degree of consumption which has taken place in the hands of so few, all on borrowed money, is a scandal. In many cases it is those same people who now own the income-generating assets which will shield them from the worst of the pain. Hmmmmmmmmmm !!! Greedy feckers - you know who you are
oh lord. the lunatics have taken over again. office block invaded by the occupy london mob.
Doesn't sound like lunacy to me.
to quote you earlier. wtf do they have to do with the pensions protests?
bandwagon jumpers.
Chewie on the wind up again.
Ferchrissakes... people on the ground (home owners, private & public sector workers earning an honest crust) shouldn't be held responsible for sh1t decisions made by dodgy politicians and bankers.
But those people have every right to be angry about pension cuts. As do people that sympathise with their cause.
And NO I'm not about to become a friggin' spokesperson on the subject. If you don't agree with the protests I really couldn't give a monkeys.
Ferchrissakes... people on the ground (home owners, private & public sector workers earning an honest crust) shouldn't be held responsible for sh1t decisions made by dodgy politicians and bankers.
But those people have every right to be angry about pension cuts. As do people that sympathise with their cause.
And NO I'm not about to become a friggin' spokesperson on the subject. If you don't agree with the protests I really couldn't give a monkeys.