The end of the West End?

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I think some of you don't fully appreciate that most Spanish resorts don't actually need a massive police presence because most of them aren't overrun every summer by skinny pasty faced foreign kids behaving like c**ts OR thieves OR whores OR assorted other parasites. The reality is most people in Spain are pretty chilled when they go on holiday. Most Spanish kids prefer a spliff to getting pissed. As a result many of the police recruits don't have the same experience or background in dealing with these situations as good ol PC Plod. When resources are finite and there are logistical issues, you can guess what happens next... The Spanish heavyweight police, the antidisturbios, the ones who nearly cracked my mum's head open in a polling station in 2017, those guys are saved for political or football riots, the ones who do resorts are further down the chain and hopelessly ill-equipped a lot of the time whilst the GC save their firepower for major league murders or drug busts. So the solution can't come from the police because it ain't gonna happen.
 
Tourist said:
I think some of you don't fully appreciate that most Spanish resorts don't actually need a massive police presence because most of them aren't overrun every summer by skinny pasty faced foreign kids behaving like c**ts OR thieves OR whores OR assorted other parasites. The reality is most people in Spain are pretty chilled when they go on holiday. Most Spanish kids prefer a spliff to getting pissed. As a result many of the police recruits don't have the same experience or background in dealing with these situations as good ol PC Plod. When resources are finite and there are logistical issues, you can guess what happens next... The Spanish heavyweight police, the antidisturbios, the ones who nearly cracked my mum's head open in a polling station in 2017, those guys are saved for political or football riots, the ones who do resorts are further down the chain and hopelessly ill-equipped a lot of the time whilst the GC save their firepower for major league murders or drug busts. So the solution can't come from the police because it ain't gonna happen.
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Then they need to evolve to facilitate the evolution of the West End and Magaluf etc. The reason the prossies, looky men, pickpockets, muggers etc. congregate in the West End is because they see drunken youngsters as an easy mark. If you change the social structure of the West End without dealing with the criminal element then all they will do is tailor their tactics to the new clientele. A wealthier, possibly less aware clientele that are more likely to have expensive cameras, jewellery, and expensive handbags containing more money than most youngsters. There's absolutely no point in changing the social structure until you tackle the social problems of the area. If you just change the clientele the scumbags will change accordingly and the whole thing will just repeat itself. Regardless of the roles of the different police forces they need a combined effort otherwise the whole project will be doomed to fail. If you pay say 10 Euros for some food in the West End and then they 'change' it and everywhere's cleaner and you pay 30 Euros for a meal but you're still hassled by looky men whilst you're eating then literally the only thing that will really have changed is the amount of money you've spent
 
BenH said:
True but it was the same when I was 18. Unless you already had an appetite for the music and the rave! In which case you worked hard and saved harder!
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My first time in Ibiza was in 1997. It cost £280 for hotel and flight combined, and £350 in Pesetas for a week. Flights are still cheap thanks to Sleazyjet and Ryanair, but it cost £800 for a hotel for a week in September this year and I took £1,500 spending money and brought back £200 (no clubbing you see). I know far more value for money places to eat but it's still disproportionately expensive compared to what it was. I worked hard and saved to go on that first Ibiza holiday, but even allowing for pay rises etc if I was on the equivalent wage now there's no way I could afford to go every year at that age.
 
Padster said:
Then they need to evolve to facilitate the evolution of the West End and Magaluf etc. The reason the prossies, looky men, pickpockets, muggers etc. congregate in the West End is because they see drunken youngsters as an easy mark. If you change the social structure of the West End without dealing with the criminal element then all they will do is tailor their tactics to the new clientele. A wealthier, possibly less aware clientele that are more likely to have expensive cameras, jewellery, and expensive handbags containing more money than most youngsters. There's absolutely no point in changing the social structure until you tackle the social problems of the area. If you just change the clientele the scumbags will change accordingly and the whole thing will just repeat itself. Regardless of the roles of the different police forces they need a combined effort otherwise the whole project will be doomed to fail. If you pay say 10 Euros for some food in the West End and then they 'change' it and everywhere's cleaner and you pay 30 Euros for a meal but you're still hassled by looky men whilst you're eating then literally the only thing that will really have changed is the amount of money you've spent
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As prev discussed a while back, gated entrances with private security are one solution. Whether it would be workable though is another matter...
 
At present they seem to want to change without any money been spent, reduce the volume, reduce the closing times, reduce the hours you can drink at a table outside, think there's a pattern there. Unless they spend some money, the youngsters will be over priced and will the older bigger earners really wont want to go to bars, that charge more, for pretty much the same product as before and in the current climate, will there be any money to upgrade it, with the way the world is at the mo
 
Tourist said:
As prev discussed a while back, gated entrances with private security are one solution. Whether it would be workable though is another matter...
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There's no way that could work unless the vendors were prepared to pay for the security themselves. I believe the island consull and Baleares Consull need to work together to try to convince central government to create a police task force to clean up the area and Magaluf and then maintain a high profile pro-active police presence. They may have to offer financial incentives and training to change the attitude and current working practices of the policia, but it would all have to be worked out at every level and with co-operation of all the parties involved. Private security might work in the short term but without powers of arrest I think any success would be limited.
 
Padster said:
There's no way that could work unless the vendors were prepared to pay for the security themselves. I believe the island consull and Baleares Consull need to work together to try to convince central government to create a police task force to clean up the area and Magaluf and then maintain a high profile pro-active police presence. They may have to offer financial incentives and training to change the attitude and current working practices of the policia, but it would all have to be worked out at every level and with co-operation of all the parties involved. Private security might work in the short term but without powers of arrest I think any success would be limited.
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While I agree that private security's power is limited and hardened criminals would know the rules and ignore or exploit that...an unexpected downside of the West Ends 'everyone indoors at midnight' rule was less bouncers and even just bar staff and PR's on the street watching their patch and that has made the crime worse from what I can see.

I remember being in a packed Highlander a couple of years ago after the rules changed and looking out the window to see a line of rough looking hookers outside in formation, like a girl band gone very bad! doubt they'd have been so blatant had there been bar customers sat outside, staff clearing glasses etc.
 
Digital2013 said:
While I agree that private security's power is limited and hardened criminals would know the rules and ignore or exploit that...an unexpected downside of the West Ends 'everyone indoors at midnight' rule was less bouncers and even just bar staff and PR's on the street watching their patch and that has made the crime worse from what I can see.

I remember being in a packed Highlander a couple of years ago after the rules changed and looking out the window to see a line of rough looking hookers outside in formation, like a girl band gone very bad! doubt they'd have been so blatant had there been bar customers sat outside, staff clearing glasses etc.
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Are you sure it wasn't Little Mix..?
 
Digital2013 said:
While I agree that private security's power is limited and hardened criminals would know the rules and ignore or exploit that...an unexpected downside of the West Ends 'everyone indoors at midnight' rule was less bouncers and even just bar staff and PR's on the street watching their patch and that has made the crime worse from what I can see.

I remember being in a packed Highlander a couple of years ago after the rules changed and looking out the window to see a line of rough looking hookers outside in formation, like a girl band gone very bad! doubt they'd have been so blatant had there been bar customers sat outside, staff clearing glasses etc.
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They'd just move to the streets in the immediate area and accost people as they moved off after their meals
 
very old pic. and yeah, that is villa mercedes...

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This thread, and the one that came before it, has been an interesting read. I went to Ibiza for the first time in July 2019. (I did my partying, in the 90s and noughties, elsewhere.) In 2019, the West End seemed just like any other party area in an old European town. Although in the West End things are somewhat exaggerated. It's not normal to have 24 hour tattoo parlours. :rolleyes:

The West End seems to be a spot of degeneracy and decay in an otherwise affluent and expensive tourist destination. I really don't see the problem of having these kinds of bars in this particular place. The area consists mainly of old buildings, many that you probably can't demolish, with no view, no pools, no parking, with narrow streets and with not much other use than as cheap hostals and low-end night life establishments. Why not let it remain more or less as it is?

What surprised me the most in Ibiza is the cost of everything. It's almost as bad as in Norway and Switzerland. Why do young people go partying in Ibiza and the West End, when it's much cheaper in Greece, Eastern Europe and just about everywhere else? How can they afford it? With cover charges going at 30-40 euros and drinks at 18 euros, It's probably cheaper over all going to Thailand or Brazil. Even the After Skis in the Alps can compete with this.

Ibiza, and the West End, seem today to be a party destination that once had no equal, and that is now running partly on its past reputation. Sooner or later the mask might fall, and most of the potential newbies (who are needed to fill in gaps vacated by people getting married and moving on) decide instead go on holiday to a party island in Greece or somewhere in the Caribs.
 
Snowy said:
This thread, and the one that came before it, has been an interesting read. I went to Ibiza for the first time in July 2019. (I did my partying, in the 90s and noughties, elsewhere.) In 2019, the West End seemed just like any other party area in an old European town. Although in the West End things are somewhat exaggerated. It's not normal to have 24 hour tattoo parlours. :rolleyes:

The West End seems to be a spot of degeneracy and decay in an otherwise affluent and expensive tourist destination. I really don't see the problem of having these kinds of bars in this particular place. The area consists mainly of old buildings, many that you probably can't demolish, with no view, no pools, no parking, with narrow streets and with not much other use than as cheap hostals and low-end night life establishments. Why not let it remain more or less as it is?

What surprised me the most in Ibiza is the cost of everything. It's almost as bad as in Norway and Switzerland. Why do young people go partying in Ibiza and the West End, when it's much cheaper in Greece, Eastern Europe and just about everywhere else? How can they afford it? With cover charges going at 30-40 euros and drinks at 18 euros, It's probably cheaper over all going to Thailand or Brazil. Even the After Skis in the Alps can compete with this.

Ibiza, and the West End, seem today to be a party destination that once had no equal, and that is now running partly on its past reputation. Sooner or later the mask might fall, and most of the potential newbies (who are needed to fill in gaps vacated by people getting married and moving on) decide instead go on holiday to a party island in Greece or somewhere in the Caribs.
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Agree with you on the Westend buildings are old and not particularly attractive part. I've long questioned what the actual plan is when they've driven all the 'downmarket'businesses out.

Ibiza's unique selling point is the Dance music scene, its seen as the authentic home of Dance Music and I can't see that changing soon. Places like Vegas can now afford to give the DJ's megabucks to play there but given the choice I reckon most clubbers would still choose Ibiza.

Croatia has become a more credible rival but it seems to me people go for specific festivals in one place, not a week drifting along to different venues so its slightly different.
 
Digital2013 said:
Agree with you on the Westend buildings are old and not particularly attractive part. I've long questioned what the actual plan is when they've driven all the 'downmarket'businesses out.

Ibiza's unique selling point is the Dance music scene, its seen as the authentic home of Dance Music and I can't see that changing soon. Places like Vegas can now afford to give the DJ's megabucks to play there but given the choice I reckon most clubbers would still choose Ibiza.

Croatia has become a more credible rival but it seems to me people go for specific festivals in one place, not a week drifting along to different venues so its slightly different.
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Solid analysis.

Is Ibiza too expensive? Yes. Will young folk still find their way there, stay in Picis Park and have the week of their lives on 10 euro pills and Lidl wine? Also yes
 
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