Ignorance breeds prejudice and dohnuts

The truth is that many people gain a measure of their worth, dignity and identity from their jobs. Be it a high flying executive or a operative in a factory.

Not that i think your work should define you, just that by not working many people will not experience the self esteem and pride that paying your way and providing for yourself and family can provide.

I believe it's very important whether you earn minimum wage or a million quid a year.
 
MARKB said:
The truth is that many people gain a measure of their worth, dignity and identity from their jobs. Be it a high flying executive or a operative in a factory.

Not that i think your work should define you, just that by not working many people will not experience the self esteem and pride that paying your way and providing for yourself and family can provide.

I believe it's very important whether you earn minimum wage or a million quid a year.
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I hate nothing more than sitting around all day anyway being a bum
 
Beckiboo said:
I also watched that program last night about teenage parents. Most of the girls, although young and quite naive, were willing to look after their babies and become responsible adults.

But that one 14yr old... Charlotte I think her name was. WTF did she choose to have a baby for?! The poor mite was totally neglected, she wouldn't hold her, wash her, change her, nothing! Charlotte was a very immature 14 year old herself, how the hell did she get into that predicament where she is not only a child herself, but also a mother.

It makes me sad because her own baby will never have a proper upbringing by its own mother, not the best start in life when your own mother rejects you is it?

Something has to be said for Charlotte's own parents - what the hell was their 13yr old daughter doing sleeping with boys, and when she got pregnant, who thought it would be a good idea for her to keep it?!

Shocking.

Oh - and on the problem of immigrants / spongers / different races in different jobs etc.

You get good and bad in all races. I hate spongers full stop, be they white, black, brown, yellow, purple, green, blue (tm Danny T ;)). I can't stand anyone who is fit and healthy yet does not want to work and pay taxes like the rest of us!
I find it very infuritating when people come to England from other countries soleyl to milk our benefits system. That makes my blood boil.
But I have no problem with anyone coming over, working, earning a living and contributing to our economy.
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Becky in salient point made shocker!!!

agree wholeheartedly with you missy!!!
 
Its not just about what kind of job people do.. or don't have, but its the fact that many people make judgement calls on other people and their lives. Yes, there are people who milk the system, but I think MANY people who criticize have never been in that situation..
 
utagaura said:
Its not just about what kind of job people do.. or don't have, but its the fact that many people make judgement calls on other people and their lives. Yes, there are people who milk the system, but I think MANY people who criticize have never been in that situation..
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true, there is an enormous need for our system. i think though that although there is a huge amount of people milking it for everything it is worth, the majority of people in the benefit cycle are institutionalised within it and do not know any better. In my opinion, the whole thing is ****ed.
 
I am not against people in need of places. I didn't see the programme, but I expressed by loathing of lazy people that see having a kid at a young age as a guaranteed career option of obtaining housing.

I do not judge people by what they do for a living. If thats the case then I'd have no chance under my attitude because I am a delivery driver. I hate it sometimes but I get on with it whilst keeping my mind focused on what I want to do in life.

So yes, I do despise the attitude of people that use hardship and play the victim in life to obtain a free ride. I come from a tough background and have had to fight tooth and nail for everything I have ever done or had. My brother is a case in point, he uses the past to justify his almost 20 years unemployment. Yet myself and my sister flew the nest and are doing great given the cards we were dealt. I know tradegy, I know pain and I know suffering yet that does not manufacture an excuse to sit on my arse feeling sorry for myself.
 
fatphilb said:
true, there is an enormous need for our system. i think though that although there is a huge amount of people milking it for everything it is worth, the majority of people in the benefit cycle are institutionalised within it and do not know any better. In my opinion, the whole thing is ****ed.
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Scrap it. It'd help reduce upwards pressure on your taxes, for one thing.

In some States nowadays, they've got a system to push people into job training and work. No more indefinite handouts. Limits of 2-3 years. I think that's the direction to go....

Maybe you've already got something like that in the UK, but the amount I see/hear/read about benefits abuse it seems like you could live off the system forever. Could a reform like that work in the Nanny State?
 
Hi Coley,

Your brother is a good example of what you are talking about.

However, what about whole areas of towns? Whole families? Like MARKB said, they are insitutionalised. Their parents were on benefits and their older siblings went that way too. It is sometimes seen as what you do when you grow up. You go to school, you finish as soon as possible, you get your benefits and you do a bit of work on the sly.

I'd like to think that if I had grown up in that environment I wouldn't end up on benefit as a matter of course.....but who knows?

These people we are talking about....the whole families, the whole areas of people, not individuals like your brother....used to work. Working class, bottom of the rung people used to do hard labour, boring as hell menial jobs.

Those jobs pretty much don't exist anymore for them.

How can Britain take away their jobs and then criticise them for being on benefits?
 
Morbyd said:
Scrap it. It'd help reduce upwards pressure on your taxes, for one thing.

In some States nowadays, they've got a system to push people into job training and work. No more indefinite handouts. Limits of 2-3 years. I think that's the direction to go....

Maybe you've already got something like that in the UK, but the amount I see/hear/read about benefits abuse it seems like you could live off the system forever. Could a reform like that work in the Nanny State?
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doubt it.

Losing battle. Like I said, we need the system cause there are, probably for the most part, a majority of people who desperately need it, some are really poor souls. But there are also an awful lot of ****s who are milking it. Even down to the lazy bastards that get their benefits stopped cause they wont return simple letters, only to have them reinstated once they go to taxpayers funded solicitors (and deliver some horrific abuse down the phone at times).
 
Morbyd said:
In some States nowadays, they've got a system to push people into job training and work. No more indefinite handouts. Limits of 2-3 years. I think that's the direction to go....
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We have this, years ago I worked in a NGO that took care of the social-laboral insertion of these people. It's extremly difficult for them to get into the system, they have too many lacks in all senses and, as Mark said, in most cases it's institutionalised and they just don't have any other examples to follow.

As Hannah said, I like to think that if I was in that case I would do my best to do something with my life, but it's too easy to say
 
Morbyd said:
Scrap it. It'd help reduce upwards pressure on your taxes, for one thing.

In some States nowadays, they've got a system to push people into job training and work. No more indefinite handouts. Limits of 2-3 years. I think that's the direction to go....

Maybe you've already got something like that in the UK, but the amount I see/hear/read about benefits abuse it seems like you could live off the system forever. Could a reform like that work in the Nanny State?
Click to expand...

I don't think we should scrap it. Society should support everyone within it should they need the help. That's what makes a civilised society in my opinion. I don't mind taxation, help your brother man I say. But it's too open for abuse in certain ways.

Becki hit the nail on the head. People in genuine need, - fine. Scroungers - tolerance Nil.
 
Hi Hannah

When talking on a grand scale then I wholeheartidly agree with you. Like the closing of the mines by Thatcher and the grief that caused. Its not about the unemployed and hard up. Its the lack of desire to work if you get my drift.
 
MARKB said:
I don't think we should scrap it. Society should support everyone within it should they need the help. That's what makes a civilised society in my opinion. I don't mind taxation, help your brother man I say. But it's too open for abuse in certain ways.

Becki hit the nail on the head. People in genuine need, - fine. Scroungers - tolerance Nil.
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Agreed.
 
its never an easy debate, but not one you can go wading into lightly!

i really do not see how they can change things though. the best thing in my opinion that they can do is find a way of showing the kids that this isn't the way to be. most get the attitude from family members, mum and dad, brother and sister etc.
 
Call it controversial - but I would be all for giving (*at risk) girls the contraceptive injection from the age of 11 - 18 ......... give them a chance at a life before making that decision to have a child.

*by at risk - I mean those than know nothing other than the whole "get pregnant, get a house, get benefits minority"
 
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