Greece debt farce - the end of the Euro?

Well i've been reading a lot lately and have a seen a lot of documentaries due to the greek financial problems...

I think we are about to see a total collapse of the american economy similar to the Big Crisis in 1929 as their debt has already hit the ceilings... the question is when is this going to happen...
 
Well i've been reading a lot lately and have a seen a lot of documentaries due to the greek financial problems...

I think we are about to see a total collapse of the american economy similar to the Big Crisis in 1929 as their debt has already hit the ceilings... the question is when is this going to happen...

I don't think this is as far fetched as many would believe. The extent to which the markets are being fixed in the US is incredible, quite how far they would go to try and prop up the house of cards is questionable?

The AAA status of the US is under immense pressure.
 
I don't think this is as far fetched as many would believe. The extent to which the markets are being fixed in the US is incredible, quite how far they would go to try and prop up the house of cards is questionable?

The AAA status of the US is under immense pressure.
Let's put it this way:
I'm American, and I only keep 2/7 of my savings in dollars :idea:
(at least, that's my usual target... I'm actually underweight on dollars at the moment ;))
 
I don't think this is as far fetched as many would believe. The extent to which the markets are being fixed in the US is incredible, quite how far they would go to try and prop up the house of cards is questionable?

The AAA status of the US is under immense pressure.

The new budget will address the debt, and protect the bond rating. The chances of a 1929 crash is far off. If you would have said that in 08 I would have agreed with you. Happy day are not here again but it is not the end of the world. The inflation rate is low which is a good sign.


@ Morbs now that the dollar is at a low would be the time to get dollars
 
Where do you put the other 5... or should I ask:)
2/7 euros, 2/7 rubles and 1/7 pounds. Approximately. Overweight on rubles at the moment as I haven't converted any for a while and I think the dollar and euro are both in trouble.
@ Morbs now that the dollar is at a low would be the time to get dollars
I think it will go lower vis a vis the ruble.
 
Don't believe in everything that you read...no one had written in the greek press about the possibility of a huge crisis but almost everybody (from the politicians) knew it was coming... sometimes you have to dig deeper to find the truth! ;)

I deal with the international finance market everyday, also I'm working on a MBA. I watch the market hourly while I'm awake. I trust economist that predicted the the crisis at the start of 2008. They don't work for a government they just call it like they see it. These same economists saw the fall of the derivative markets and were calling for reform.
 
What a barmy carry on :(

They have been threatening the GB and US for the past two plus years, as per the German comment, perhaps time to reconsider the importance of Moody's et al.
 
Not sure what there is to rethink. They have analysts, specialized in fixed-income (i.e. bonds). They look at a debtor and give an assessment. Someone has to do it.

It is an interesting system though. It's not the buyers of the debt that pay for it, but the sellers of the bonds.

The self-fulfilling prophecy line is a good point, but what if Moody's hadn't made the downgrade and Portugal indeed required another bailout? We'd be saying they weren't doing their jobs.
 
Not sure what there is to rethink. They have analysts, specialized in fixed-income (i.e. bonds). They look at a debtor and give an assessment. Someone has to do it.

It is an interesting system though. It's not the buyers of the debt that pay for it, but the sellers of the bonds.

The self-fulfilling prophecy line is a good point, but what if Moody's hadn't made the downgrade and Portugal indeed required another bailout? We'd be saying they weren't doing their jobs.

I agree; I wish they would have down graded all the companies trading in derivatives. Someone needs to rate the bonds and all three raters came to the same conclusion. The US and United Kingdom have a better outlook being the financial hubs of their areas.
 
The whole murky world of finance gets murkier month on month. Read about the validity of the stress tests applied to banks the other day. The bottom line seemed to be the stress tests are a load of old pugwash!
 
it's widely recognised that moody's, s&p's, fitch.. were, in-part, to blame for the credit crunch due to rating junk debt incorrectly. we can't really start digging them out for grading ailing countries debt as junk. the significance of credit rating agencies cannot be underestimated.

today portugal raised money, albeit at a higher price:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...elow-3-percent-after-portugal-rating-cut.html

my thoughts:

we will have this kind of saga with various other european countries for the next 2 years or so, so get used to it. i don't know what the future holds for the euro, but the credibility of a single currency has been hammered and won't recover for a long time.

in terms of global markets, remarkably our main index the ftse 100 has recovered to above 6000 points on the back of a greek bailout, with the dow doing the same. this won't last. volatility will be the order of the day for some time yet, volumes are at record low levels and investors are scared. you could argue the case that 'every bull run climbs a wall of fear', but we are running out of steam and there are far too many banana skins for my liking. most equities look overbought at these levels - the greek's weren't the only reason we had 7 straight weeks of losses!

on top of the eurozone problems, we have china raising interest rates to calm inflationary pressures. this is important and another factor weighing on sentiment due to the size and growth of the country.

ecb and boe rate decision tomorrow. euro plus 25 basis points, we won't change.

us nfp's on friday.

let's see where we are after that lot.

:evil:
 
But why would a default by Greece cause trouble for the Euro? Is there an explanation understandable to a non-economist like me?

Sure people will suffer, will possibly lose their savings. There will be riots in Greece causing death and destruction. Some Greek voters may even die of hunger (and it's the voters who are responsible for the irresponsible fiscal policy!).

But why would a default damage the Euro as a currency? When Argentina went bankrupt in the 1990s (with the currency pegged to the US dollar), there was no damage to the dollar - in fact it had a much higher value than today!
 
But why would a default by Greece cause trouble for the Euro? Is there an explanation understandable to a non-economist like me?

Sure people will suffer, will possibly lose their savings. There will be riots in Greece causing death and destruction. Some Greek voters may even die of hunger (and it's the voters who are responsible for the irresponsible fiscal policy!).

But why would a default damage the Euro as a currency? When Argentina went bankrupt in the 1990s (with the currency pegged to the US dollar), there was no damage to the dollar - in fact it had a much higher value than today!

Banks, pension funds, and governments all over the world have brought Greek bonds to the tune of billions. There will be plenty of people who may go hungry if Greece defaults. It could cause another crisis in the finance markets and damage the Euro. It will also put the squeeze on Portugal, Spain and Italy. The global economy will be effected
 
in terms of global markets, remarkably our main index the ftse 100 has recovered to above 6000 points on the back of a greek bailout, with the dow doing the same. this won't last. volatility will be the order of the day for some time yet, volumes are at record low levels and investors are scared. you could argue the case that 'every bull run climbs a wall of fear', but we are running out of steam and there are far too many banana skins for my liking. most equities look overbought at these levels - the greek's weren't the only reason we had 7 straight weeks of losses!

Remains a mystery, the bulls are relentless.

Are Tony Blair's original economic indicators pointing to team GB joining the euro being met yet?:lol::lol:

(note a quick google on this just revealed a recent speech from TB on the euro;
( http://playpolitical.typepad.com/ou...ning-the-euro-could-yet-become-compellin.html )
 
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