#GE2017

TimmiT said:
Seems weird to me that such a relatively trivial thing would seem to counterbalance your option against all the other more important things though.


Terrorism, by definition, amplifies the horror caused by relatively few deaths, while the really big killers slide under the radar. The number of people killed by terrorists is vanishingly small compared to the number of people killed by heart disease, cancer, sepsis, alcohol, and so on that kill hundreds of thousands each year and will almost certainly be what get you and me. Obsessing about terrorism and not looking at the bigger picture not only plays into the terrorists' and the Government's hands but, worse, it means that resources that would be far better spent on public heath get diverted. A well funded healthcare and education system and a more equitable society that doesn't allow millions to live in effective poverty might not grab the headlines but will save many thousands more lives than would ever be saved by relative trivialities like whether police should be allowed to shoot to kill (and that's without touching on the complexities of that particular topic!).
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it's obviously not the ONLY issue but I highlighted it as an area where voters will have natural doubts about Corbyn's judgement.

I agree there's a whole lot wrong with the UK and the tories have done some shocking things

If I was a moderate voter in the UK, I would be self-flagellating in despair right now
 
Amp and Deck said:
taken from MI5 website 27/04/17

Current threat from international terrorism
The current threat level for international terrorism in the UK is SEVERE.
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...it may or may not be a coincidence that since the cold war ended and M15's main raison d ' etre effectively disappeared they need this to be true.
 
Also very worrying how easy a ride the tories are getting by the press. Tim Farron was asked some questions abt his religious beliefs and gay sex (which made him look like a c**t tbh). But notice the same question hasn't been asked of 'vicars daughter' Theresa May ? With the press onside, and a mandate from the country, who knows where the tories will take the country in the next 10 years
 
TimmiT said:
...it may or may not be a coincidence that since the cold war ended and M15's main raison d ' etre effectively disappeared they need this to be true.
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yes, it's all one big conspiracy. thousands of employees at GCHQ, MI5 all in on one elaborate joke at our expense

tell that to the relatives of the people who got slaughtered on the Underground or at the Bataclan or in Bali or Madrid or Belgium or Kenya or Nice or Mumbai or in the twin towers or any other number of less-publicised hellholes around the Middle East
 
Amp and Deck said:
yes, it's all one big conspiracy. thousands of employees at GCHQ, MI5 all in on one elaborate joke at our expense
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That's not what I said. However, these organisations' massive budgets are maintained on the basis that there is a serious threat to the UK's security so it makes sense to question whether it would be in their own interests to exaggerate the threat.

Amp and Deck said:
tell that to the relatives of the people who got slaughtered on the Underground or at the Bataclan or in Bali or Madrid or Belgium or Kenya or Nice or Mumbai or in the twin towers or any other number of less-publicised hellholes around the Middle East
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You might just as easily say "tell that to this cancer patient" when there's insufficient funding for their care because the budget was used elsewhere fighting terrorism but it's an overly simplistic, nonsense argument.

If you had to bet a hundred quid on what would be responsible for your own death I guarantee, unless you were nuts, you wouldn't even consider terrorism as a remote possibility. However, by accepting a Government that lets the NHS fall into ruin while keeping us all safe from the boogyman, you're effectively making that bet.
 
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TimmiT said:
That's not what I said. However, these organisations massive budgets are maintained on the basis that there is a serious threat to the UK's security so it makes sense to question whether it would be in their own interests to exaggerate the threat.


You might just as easily say "tell that to this cancer patient" when there's insufficient funding for their care because the budget was used elsewhere fighting terrorism but it's an overly simplistic, nonsense argument.

If you had to bet a hundred quid on what would be responsible for your own death I guarantee, unless you were nuts, you wouldn't even consider terrorism as a remote possibility. However, by accepting a Government that lets the NHS fall into ruin while keeping us all safe from the boogyman, you're effectively making that bet.
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but nobody is voting on how they are most likely to die!

people weigh up all sorts of things

if I was voting it would mostly be a choice between the brutal brexit May is going to deliver and the absolute farce that a chaotic corbyn government would offer (which from what i can make out has no brexit policy at all!)

I do NOT envy anyone who has to make that choice
 
Amp and Deck said:
but nobody is voting on how they are most likely to die!
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Of course not, but as you were the one seemingly worried about being killed by a terrorist, I simply wanted to give a bit of perspective, you're safe, don't worry :)

Amp and Deck said:
if I was voting it would mostly be a choice between the brutal brexit May is going to deliver and the absolute farce that a chaotic corbyn government would offer (which from what i can make out has no brexit policy at all!)
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To be fair, "the absolute farce that a chaotic corbyn government would offer" is more likely the "farce portrayed by the largely right-wing media" as he's not usually given a fair hearing. I have serious misgivings about Corbyn's attitude towards Europe but some of his actual policies are largely popular as far as I can tell. For example, the re-nationalisation of the railways and essential utilities is hugely popular with the public yet, even by some within his own party it's considered to be an absurd policy despite the fact that privatisation has demonstrably failed to deliver on its promises of cheaper bills/fares and better service.
 
DarrenW said:
Also very worrying how easy a ride the tories are getting by the press. Tim Farron was asked some questions abt his religious beliefs and gay sex (which made him look like a c**t tbh). But notice the same question hasn't been asked of 'vicars daughter' Theresa May ? With the press onside, and a mandate from the country, who knows where the tories will take the country in the next 10 years
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Yeah the press really don't test them. But I think the reason it's a bigger issue for farron,is he is meant to be liberal, where as you would expect shit like that from May and theTorys.
 
blaming the media is a cop-out

there has always been bias since day 1

Wilson and Blair won big despite media bias

the newspapers are all in terminal decline - people can get news from any online source they choose

people bang on about Murdoch like he's Darth Vader - he really isn't if you don't want him to be

depressed Labour mates of mine are queuing up across social media to say how terrible Corbyn is - if he can't manage a small team, then how the hell can he manage Whitehall or engage in crisis-management?
 
Amp and Deck said:
blaming the media is a cop-out

there has always been bias since day 1

Wilson and Blair won big despite media bias

the newspapers are all in terminal decline - people can get news from any online source they choose

people bang on about Murdoch like he's Darth Vader - he really isn't if you don't want him to be

depressed Labour mates of mine are queuing up across social media to say how terrible Corbyn is - if he can't manage a small team, then how the hell can he manage Whitehall or engage in crisis-management?
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Editor of the Mail the only person to be invited to no. 10 in 6 mths after TM took over. I don't think you can underestimate the media influence tbh
 
rail nationalisation - might work, might not. would certainly cost billions. either way, it's not exactly priority number 1 right now
 
Are the media talking about labours housing policy today,no. They're talking about Boris Johnson calling corbyn names.. and shouting from the rooftops that Corbyns a risk to security, whilst he boris tryst to pick a fight with Putin.
 
TimmiT said:
Simple not true I'm afraid.
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oh yes it is

only The Sun switched sides in 97 and even then, its support was flakey and conditional

Blair won partly because the tories were spent but mainly because he didn't scare the horses

If Labour had someone as telegenic and ruthless as Blair today, they might still be in with a shout
 
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