Freedom of Speech/Religious Extremism

[Buckley]

Missed a lot of what's gone on with these cartoons etc?

Can someone explain to me what the cartoons actually showed and why they were offensive to Muslims? The only English broadsheet I could find at Frankfurt Hahn airport yesterday was The Times (from Saturday) and that seemed to self-censoring in not describing them in detail.....

 

[djchewie]

Missed a lot of what's gone on with these cartoons etc?

Can someone explain to me what the cartoons actually showed and why they were offensive to Muslims? The only English broadsheet I could find at Frankfurt Hahn airport yesterday was The Times (from Saturday) and that seemed to self-censoring in not describing them in detail.....

their prophet with a turban shaped like a bomb.

under Islam, its blasphamous to show the prophet in any pictorial form.

just boils down to freedom of speech vs 'faith'.

i would comment more, but fear id be banned for what id say.

 

[Buckley]

their prophet with a turban shaped like a bomb.

under Islam, its blasphamous to show the prophet in any pictorial form.

just boils down to freedom of speech vs 'faith'.

i would comment more, but fear id be banned for what id say.

If it as simple as that, then as an agnostic leaning towards atheism, I reserve my right to veto anyone's free speech if I decide to take offense at it, no matter how nonsensical what I decide to believe may be to others.

Ban the teaching of scientifically unproven theories as fact someone please. It creates war and violence, and does the exact opposite of intended purpose at inception - creating social control.

 

[silvia]

For them is as important to not represent Alá in a pictorial form as for us is to respect the freedom of speech

In my opinion all that thing is a media manipulation, while we are entertained with this we forget about Iran or about Hamás


Other than that I don't usually see any kind of provocative image about the Cross, Chirst or whatever similar

 

[djchewie]

than that I don't usually see any kind of provocative image about the Cross, Chirst or whatever similar

ah but if you did, would it drive you to stone people, hold placards calling for the extermination of 'non-belivers', and burn down buildings?

what makes me miffed is, that if any other 'group' did that, they'd be incarcerated straight away!

 

[silvia]

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[silvia]

ah but if you did, would it drive you to stone people, hold placards calling for the extermination of 'non-belivers', and burn down buildings?

what makes me miffed is, that if any other 'group' did that, they'd be incarcerated straight away!

NO, but I still remember an art exhibition being closed because the catholic church didn't feel comfortable with one art work, and I do remember and art work being damaged because it was a provocation to the catholics. Where's the freedom of speach?

Actually, how many provocations to the catholics do you see?

 

[naddyz]

I don't know if this is true, but apparently there are countless articles in the muslim press in muslim countries denouncing jews and christians - maybe some of them that are protesting now should apply their own reasoning rather than being so pigheaded that their religion is the 'right' one and the only one that should be respected.

 

[Buckley]

For them is as important to not represent Alá in a pictorial form as for us is to respect the freedom of speech

In my opinion all that thing is a media manipulation, while we are entertained with this we forget about Iran or about Hamás


Other than that I don't usually see any kind of provocative image about the Cross, Chirst or whatever similar

The BBC comissioned and broadcast screen version of Jerry Springer:The Opera, featuring Jesus in a big nappy saying he felt 'a bit gay'. There were (from memory) 800 complaints but nothing like the hysteria there seems to be over this.

 

[djchewie]

Actually, how many provocations to the catholics do you see?

funk me, if spitting image did one of "that bloke, who u cant depict". all hell would break loose.

was chatting to my mate that everyones lost their sense of humour now.

Life Of Brian anyone?

 

[Buckley]

Actually, how many provocations to the catholics do you see?

There's a number of American artists who have created works mocking Christianity - paints of the Madonna with cow dungs, crucifixes in

 

[silvia]

The BBC comissioned and broadcast screen version of Jerry Springer:The Opera, featuring Jesus in a big nappy saying he felt 'a bit gay'. There were (from memory) 800 complaints but nothing like the hysteria there seems to be over this.

Of course, no hysteria, and actually I'm not defending them at all, the islamist society is every year more and more fundamentalist and that's quite scary

As I said before, IMO it's a big media manipulation to distract the international attention of Iran and that's a really big problem, much more than a punch of hysteric muslims burning danish flags

 

[lynch]

Other than that I don't usually see any kind of provocative image about the Cross, Chirst or whatever similar

not sure how to do the quote thing so I highlighted it, anyway, a tv reporter was interviewing a muslim preacher and said that many muslim countries have branded jews, cathloc and various other religons in a much worse way. All he could say was that's also wrong.. Not that is bothers me in the slightest, I love south park the move and they slag off everyone and everthing, but it's only a cartoon

 

[silvia]

There's a number of American artists who have created works mocking Christianity - paints of the Madonna with cow dungs, crucifixes in

Not defending them, but one thing is mocking christianity and another is something that is literally forbiden and a big sin in their holy books.

 

[Buckley]

Not defending them, but one thing is mocking christianity and another is something that is literally forbiden and a big sin in their holy books.

I understand what you're saying Sil, but that means that religious people can define what we can and can't say by how much they offence they decide to take.

 

[Beckiboo]

The cartoon depicted Muhammed as a Terrorist, which is basically the worst thing you could have drawn about in a Muslim's eyes. Muhammed is like the Christian's Jesus, he's looked at as the most purest, perfect being that all Muslims should aspire to be like.

I think the fact is that the majority of people who are Catholics/Christians do not follow their faith as relgiously as Muslims do. I'm a Christian but if I saw a cartoon about Jesus I might think it's bad, but I certainly wouldnt parade about demanding the people who drew it be beheaded.

Can I just point out that it's Muslim extremists who are protesting and burning down buildings. The majority of Muslims are peaceful people and violence is not what their relogion is all about. I think the Muslim Council of GB said that if an apology was issued they would forgive.

It's just about having respect for other people's religions isnt it? You wouldnt joke about the Holocaust with a Jew because you know it would cause offence, you shouldnt create jokes about Muhammed because quite obviously it will cause offence in the Muslim religion.

I just really wish everyone would get on because I can see this "War on Islam" growing bigger and bigger until it's WW3

 

[spunkymonkey]

This whole situation has got completely out of hand and to be honest I can only see it getting worse. I think extremist Muslims (and I stress extremist as there are far many decent law abiding Muslims) have us over a barrel and our politicians and police seem to be tip toeing around them for fear of provoking more suicide bomb attacks.
During Saturday's protests in London, an extremist muslim dressed as a suicide bomber with a bombers jacket packed full of what looked like explosives and encouraged further bombings in London and other European cities. Metres away from him a white man handed out copies of the "said" cartoons, obviously trying to stir things up. Police arrested the man with the cartoons and left the "fake" bomber to continue his protest. What is that all about? In my opinion, both were wrong and both should have been arrested.

 

[silvia]

I understand what you're saying Sil, but that means that religious people can define what we can and can't say by how much they offence they decide to take.

What I try to say is that we should look both sides to judge things


The respect line in this case is really difficult to draw, we are talking about one of the most important principle of our society and we are talking about one of their most important religious principle. Who has the truth? NObody. Where does freedom of speach ends and mocking starts? Nobody can say it.

As always it's a subjective thing and it depends on from wich side you are looking to it (does it make any sense?)

 

[djchewie]

I just really wish everyone would get on because I can see this "War on Islam" growing bigger and bigger until it's WW3

face it, they hate 'western values'. probably due to centuries of being shat on, and still being shat on in some cases.

what is ironic, is an AK47 weilding nutter wearing a Nike tracksuit burning the american flag.

in the eyes of some extremists, islam is the ONLY religion.

im with Buckley, science and proven fact of something is much more truthful than something written and re-written by the few who could write back then.

 

[silvia]

in the eyes of some extremists, islam is the ONLY religion.

In the eyes of extremists, their religion is the ONLY one, don't forget the american extremists patriotic-belivers (I'm not sure what branch of christianism do they support, maybe are differents, but the clear example is Bush)