☣ Coronavirus ☣

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kimajy said:
Not sure it'll be much more use than a flu jab - efficacy rates are way lower than Pfizer /Moderna. I'd be a lot happier if I saw more info on whether it prevents long Covid before getting excited about Oxford.
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The reason is that oxford uses a harmless cold virus as its delivery method. If you get a full first dose, the immune system not only reacts to the protein spike from the payload, but also the cold virus. Thus 2nd dose the immune system attacks the delivery method too, making it less effective. (~60%)

Those who accidentally got 1/2 first dose, the immune system didn't react as strong to the cold virus and so 2nd dose more effective (~90%)

This has been known for years and seen in tests with mice, so surprised why they are surprised ?‍♂️. Its why they are in talks with other vaccine makers that use a harmless virus as a delivery method, to mix and match 1st/2nd dose, as they all use slightly diff viruses the immune system won't cripple the 2nd dose. (Oxford + Sputnik etc).

I suspect they will put forward the 1/2 + 1 dose to the regulators initially.

The biontech/moderna vaccines use a synthetic delivery method and so don't suffer this problem. But are more expensive & harder to store as a result.
 
www.bbc.co.uk

Covid-19: Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine approved for use in UK

The first doses are due to be given on Monday, amid concern over rising coronavirus cases.
www.bbc.co.uk

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has approved two full doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.

However, unpublished data suggests that leaving a longer gap between the first and second doses increases the overall effectiveness of the jab.

There was not enough clear data to approve the half-dose, full-dose idea.
 
We are under 8pm curfew here with everything (essential and non essential) shut from 8pm until the following morning.
It's feels very strange
 
MrHullMysterious said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Covid-19: Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine approved for use in UK

The first doses are due to be given on Monday, amid concern over rising coronavirus cases.
www.bbc.co.uk

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has approved two full doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.

However, unpublished data suggests that leaving a longer gap between the first and second doses increases the overall effectiveness of the jab.

There was not enough clear data to approve the half-dose, full-dose idea.
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At 60% effectiveness I won't be happy with the 2 full dose method being enough to de-shield our household if that is all my 76-year old mum is offered. Unless she gets the pfizer or moderna we will all have to act as if she hasn't been vaccinated at all for as long as it takes to get a decent one. So basically what's been approved so far, for us, won't solve anything. Better to wait ? Or are they not bothering to try to get the 1/2 - full dose option approved ?

I am guessing that if you miss your offered slot you won't be eligible for something else .... it's rubbish.
 
eclipse15 said:
Approved this morning in the UK- most excellent news
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Great news for Britain both for ramping up the speed of jabbing our own people, but also helping less developed nations who simply can't afford the other options. Also gives a boost to our image on innovation which is much needed in a post-Brexit world.
 
BenH said:
Rumours of a 6 week lockdown for the whole of England and a curfew!
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Id support that if it helps buy time to get people vaccinated and helps the NHS cope. But it would have to be sold as 'one last national lockdown' to a weary public I think. I rarely do much in January and Feb anyway, impact is lower than say the Summer.
 
kimajy said:
At 60% effectiveness I won't be happy with the 2 full dose method being enough to de-shield our household if that is all my 76-year old mum is offered. Unless she gets the pfizer or moderna we will all have to act as if she hasn't been vaccinated at all for as long as it takes to get a decent one. So basically what's been approved so far, for us, won't solve anything. Better to wait ? Or are they not bothering to try to get the 1/2 - full dose option approved ?

I am guessing that if you miss your offered slot you won't be eligible for something else .... it's rubbish.
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Looks like they changing the time till 2nd dose to 12 weeks instead of around 3. This apparently more effective which makes sense. Immune system given time to stand down from detecting cold virus ?‍♂️
 
kimajy said:
At 60% effectiveness I won't be happy with the 2 full dose method being enough to de-shield our household if that is all my 76-year old mum is offered. Unless she gets the pfizer or moderna we will all have to act as if she hasn't been vaccinated at all for as long as it takes to get a decent one. So basically what's been approved so far, for us, won't solve anything. Better to wait ? Or are they not bothering to try to get the 1/2 - full dose option approved ?

I am guessing that if you miss your offered slot you won't be eligible for something else .... it's rubbish.
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Big Joan is nearly 82, I'm accepting that after both doses of the Oxford she will have to take her chances. By then it will be a year of no swimming, no bingo and no boyfriend, she needs to enjoy what ever time she has left

Tough choices all round
 
Digital2013 said:
Great news for Britain both for ramping up the speed of jabbing our own people, but also helping less developed nations who simply can't afford the other options. Also gives a boost to our image on innovation which is much needed in a post-Brexit world.
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Think the plan is to produce 3bn doses of it, mega numbers
 
Hally said:
Big Joan is nearly 82, I'm accepting that after both doses of the Oxford she will have to take her chances. By then it will be a year of no swimming, no bingo and no boyfriend, she needs to enjoy what ever time she has left

Tough choices all round
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... or wait 6 months until you can get hold of something privately ? We've lost a whole year. What's another half .... surely the Oxford one widely delivered on this basis seems very likely to promote early mutation to increased virulence and vaccine resistance ?
 
eclipse15 said:
Not sure that’s true, flu jab is around 60/70% depending on the specific variant for the year, whereas Oxford is up to 90% when the second dose is a half dose as per the Lancet

www.independent.co.uk

Oxford Covid vaccine is safe and up to 90% effective, new analysis confirms

No cases of hospitalisation or severe disease reported among volunteers who received jab
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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Other way round, So if you accept the full first dose you can't wait for the data to catch up and "fix it" with a half-2nd dose. The way it's panned out they're going to rush full first doses in the millions. Basically offering the UK population the 3rd world "something better than nothing" option rather than the US-EU "best option".
 
kimajy said:
... or wait 6 months until you can get hold of something privately ? We've lost a whole year. What's another half .... surely the Oxford one widely delivered on this basis seems very likely to promote early mutation to increased virulence and vaccine resistance ?
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With a whole country vaccinated there would be barely any virus around, meaning that chance she has of catching it becomes much less.

The Oxford vaccine has also shown no serious illness from anyone vaccinated. So I think it'd be a silly choice to wait around when a vaccine is available that offers the right levels of protection.
 
kimajy said:
Other way round, So if you accept the full first dose you can't wait for the data to catch up and "fix it" with a half-2nd dose. The way it's panned out they're going to rush full first doses in the millions. Basically offering the UK population the 3rd world "something better than nothing" option rather than the US-EU "best option".
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Yeah basically they want coverage by giving as many as possible the 1st dose. The 2nd dose is for "longevity", or in other words think of all the 2nd doses as "boosters" to give people longer protection.

My thoughts are they will all pan out at around the same efficacy if 2 doses are given 3 months apart.

Note, the 1/2 + 1 full dose cock up where given over a longer interval instead of the 3 weeks expected. Thus they think 1 + 1, 12 weeks apart will be the same.
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Yeah basically they want coverage by giving as many as possible the 1st dose. The 2nd dose is for "longevity", or in other words think of all the 2nd doses as "boosters" to give people longer protection.
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I don't think that's the way it works though - what degree of protection in terms of % infected do you get from the 1st dose ? Not the same as after the 2nd dose because your immune system is not sufficiently primed by the 1st dose. Sure the 2nd dose also gives longer protection but the first is not enough for either vaccine to change assumptions about how vulnerable you are ? It's now just about curbing numbers of people arriving at hospital for the Government not about preventing vaccinated people arriving at all (including the elderly).... also helps extend the period we are all expected to run around in masks and avoid contact with other humans !
 
kimajy said:
I don't think that's the way it works though - what degree of protection in terms of % infected do you get from the 1st dose ? Not the same as after the 2nd dose because your immune system is not sufficiently primed by the 1st dose. Sure the 2nd dose also gives longer protection but the first is not enough for either vaccine to change assumptions about how vulnerable you are ? It's now just about curbing numbers of people arriving at hospital for the Government not about preventing vaccinated people arriving at all (including the elderly).... also helps extend the period we are all expected to run around in masks and avoid contact with other humans !
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Yeah the thing is they've not really done trials with just one dose so it's hard to know.

Suspect it will be lower % of completely immune to infection but the risk of severe disease is very low. So like you said, reduce the nhs pressure and letting things open up a bit. Then sort out long term immunity.

So not unlike the flu jab, only 60% ish efficacy to stop you actually getting the flu but does also reduce severity if you get it.

Oxford can be mass produced quickly and around the world in many facilities. So like someone else said, if reduces the amount of virus in circulation, that would be a big help.

Ps: I think if they get a lot vaccinated with just 1 dose, they will be keen to open everything up quickly to stop the economy ending up in a massive rut. They will just sat those at risk who have only had 1 dose to remain careful, the rest, off we go?
 
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