☣ Coronavirus ☣

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Really? Plenty of places in the South East would fall into Tier 1 now I reckon. The county I live in was in the bottom 10% last week and has been for some time now, and it is definitely not small and remote. Devil in the detail of course...
West Sussex appears to be the "best" with119 cases. Some boroughs like Kingston are a tad below, but I don't think anywhere over 100 will be the lowest level. Hope I'm wrong, as I'm ready to travel for a decent night out (ie Brighton) if I'm allowed!
 
West Sussex appears to be the "best" with119 cases. Some boroughs like Kingston are a tad below, but I don't think anywhere over 100 will be the lowest level. Hope I'm wrong, as I'm ready to travel for a decent night out (ie Brighton) if I'm allowed!
Oh - as a fellow West Sussex resident I did not even realise we are the best. Surely 119 cases in a fairly big county with 900k people living in it should be sufficient enough not to be in Tier 2
 
Oh - as a fellow West Sussex resident I did not even realise we are the best. Surely 119 cases in a fairly big county with 900k people living in it should be sufficient enough not to be in Tier 2
Unfortunately it's not 119 cases, it's 119 cases per 100,000 of the population. That's how it's worked out to even out areas of high and low density. Still a reasonably good number, but nothing like summer when it was 10-20 per 100,000 and I could visit.

100,000/119 = one - in 840 has covid, so the chances of bumping into anyone on the daily routine is pretty slim though.
 
We're currently at 58 per 100,000 and pretty stable. What are the likely prospects of going into Tier 1 ? I guess if they draw boundaries effectively by county rather than local authority area we'll be assessed at double that ....
 
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I'm only curious right now, because my borough and immediate neighbours are faring relatively well with covid. Further east, it's a different story. So Kent measured as a whole gives a false impression, one way or the other. But of course, you have to draw the line somewhere

This is our problem in Morecambe we are part of Lancaster City Council, which has the lowest rates in Lancashire. But we're waiting to see if we get grouped into tier 3 with Lancashire County Council (effectively Blackburn, Burnley and all the other high-rate areas over an hours drive away) whilst our neighbours in Kendal (15 mins up the M6) will be in tier 1, despite having higher cases
 
Big up the Sussex crew. I do miss it sometimes, pub quizzes and parties along the front. If anyone passes through the Worthing Wimpy order a 'bender in a bun' for us!

meanwhile, they reckon 70% bars here have reopened but under heavy restrictions. in some cases only open for 3/4 hours. the forward thinkers are doing food joint ventures with neighbouring cafes and restaurants to survive
 
Hopefully that wouldn't then increase our numbers here!

I suspect Brighton & Hove will be Tier 2.
The problem is that they are taking a regional approach. In the real world, there are nine UK regions. Most regions have an area with high numbers. That instantly enables the government to justify making every region tier 3. It’s a ridiculous situation as it takes hours to drive from east to west or north to south in any region. But this approach enables the government to exercise more control and suppress the population with an authoritarian regime. To back this up, Sky are reporting that nowhere is expected to be tier 1 as a result.

We also have city regions. So, I live in North Yorkshire but we are part of the Leeds city region. Politically, resolving this is a basket case.

The government may also redefine what regions are for the purpose of the exercise. That could be based on some kind of county borders. So, where I live we have 175 infections to every 100k of the population. Unfortunately, in North Yorkshire, 2 hours away from me is Scarborough with an infection rate of nearly double and last week it was triple. So we would get shafted because of them.

The number of people that will have to endure harsh restrictions because the area they reside in is part of a region with an area with a spike is absolutely ridiculous. This is becoming less about controlling the people because of Covid and more about controlling the people full stop.
 
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This is the criteria on which they will determine which region is in which tier category. It’s carte blanche to put everyone in tier 3 or a few in tier 2.

a. Case detection rates in all age groups;
a. Case detection rates in all age groups;
b. Case detection rates in the over 60s;
c. The rate at which cases are rising or falling;
d. Positivity rate (the number of positive cases detected as a percentage of tests taken); and
e. Pressure on the NHS, including current and projected occupancy.
 
The problem is that they are taking a regional approach. In the real world, there are nine UK regions. Most regions have an area with high numbers. That instantly enables the government to justify making every region tier 3. It’s a ridiculous situation as it takes hours to drive from east to west or north to south in any region. But this approach enables the government to exercise more control and suppress the population with an authoritarian regime. To back this up, Sky are reporting that nowhere is expected to be tier 1 as a result.

We also have city regions. So, I live in North Yorkshire but we are part of the Leeds city region. Politically, resolving this is a basket case.

The government may also redefine what regions are for the purpose of the exercise. That could be based on some kind of county borders. So, where I live we have 175 infections to every 100k of the population. Unfortunately, in North Yorkshire, 2 hours away from me is Scarborough with an infection rate of nearly double and last week it was triple. So we would get shafted because of them.

The number of people that will have to endure harsh restrictions because the area they reside in is part of a region with an area with a spike is absolutely ridiculous. This is becoming less about controlling the people because of Covid and more about controlling the people full stop.
Genuine question, controlling the people for what end?
 
And while I’m ranting. The government are to review the tier status of every region every 14 days. I bet they won’t declare what an area has to do to move tiers. If people don’t know what they are aiming for, they won’t comply in the numbers required. It’s like trying to score a goal when you don’t know where the goal is. As with pretty much everything this government has done so far, the whole situation is farcical and it leads to the most even minded of people suspecting there are other agendas at work. I’m not even going to say what I think they will do with vaccine roll out.
 
The problem is that they are taking a regional approach. In the real world, there are nine UK regions. Most regions have an area with high numbers. That instantly enables the government to justify making every region tier 3. It’s a ridiculous situation as it takes hours to drive from east to west or north to south in any region. But this approach enables the government to exercise more control and suppress the population with an authoritarian regime. To back this up, Sky are reporting that nowhere is expected to be tier 1 as a result.

We also have city regions. So, I live in North Yorkshire but we are part of the Leeds city region. Politically, resolving this is a basket case.

The government may also redefine what regions are for the purpose of the exercise. That could be based on some kind of county borders. So, where I live we have 175 infections to every 100k of the population. Unfortunately, in North Yorkshire, 2 hours away from me is Scarborough with an infection rate of nearly double and last week it was triple. So we would get shafted because of them.

The number of people that will have to endure harsh restrictions because the area they reside in is part of a region with an area with a spike is absolutely ridiculous. This is becoming less about controlling the people because of Covid and more about controlling the people full stop.
I think soaps like eastenders, the lotto and that are probably more controlling of the populus tbh ?

They don't have many good options, the virus doesn't know county boundaries and so they have to go for a coarse grained approach. Hull is bad but surrounding villages not so much. If go for a fine grained approach, then you need road checks and that. How quick can you hear "papers please" and salute to that ?

Also we are like, oh 100-200 not too bad (probs gonna be tier 1). But remember back in july where it was 7-10 per 100k? We still have huge community transmission.

Also remember even in tier 3 shops and gyms can be open, just not pubs or restaurants (except for take away).

Not as if brown shirts are coming around and checking up on us, so no need to get hysterical with conspiracy theories. It's to stop having people dying in corridors over dec/jan (which still could happen).

March time we will be on the down slope and out of all this. ?
 
Genuine question, controlling the people for what end?
Everyone would do well to remember that politicians are politicians because they want power. Ten years working in the public sector taught me that. This is proving the perfect opportunity. Anyone thinking that politicians get involved in politics to serve the public is very naive.

There are any number of reasons, to answer your question. To control the population, to remove civil liberties, to change the economy, to redefine the role of government by ensuring the politicians take more control.

I’m a pretty even minded person. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories usually. I think the relaxation of rules over Christmas is crazy, but I’m in a minority and recognise that the government know they can’t control families not seeing each other over Christmas.
 
I think soaps like eastenders, the lotto and that are probably more controlling of the populus tbh ?

They don't have many good options, the virus doesn't know county boundaries and so they have to go for a coarse grained approach. Hull is bad but surrounding villages not so much. If go for a fine grained approach, then you need road checks and that. How quick can you hear "papers please" and salute to that ?

Also we are like, oh 100-200 not too bad (probs gonna be tier 1). But remember back in july where it was 7-10 per 100k? We still have huge community transmission.

Also remember even in tier 3 shops and gyms can be open, just not pubs or restaurants (except for take away).

Not as if brown shirts are coming around and checking up on us, so no need to get hysterical with conspiracy theories. It's to stop having people dying in corridors over dec/jan (which still could happen).

March time we will be on the down slope and out of all this. ?
The government control society mate. Taxes, education, employment and the rule of law dictate pretty much all we do and society.

Let’s see how fast they actually move on making the vaccine available. Let’s see if we have the same civil liberties post Covid as we had before. And let’s see how they have redefined the economy.

I’m not one for conspiracy theories and certainly not hysterical. But sometimes it’s worthwhile questioning what is being imposed and why rather than nodding along.

Few people have been advocating conformity with the rules to the extent I have to stop people dying. Few people have challenged Elrow to the extent I have here. But you yourself have said that no one is going to stop you enjoying seeing family over Christmas which is at odds with the whole advocacy for lockdowns and interventions. We can’t all have it all ways when it suits us. I include myself in that. It will be interesting to see what state control looks like after all this.
 
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The government control society mate. Taxes and the law dictate pretty much all we do.

Let’s see how fast they actually move on making the vaccine available. Let’s see if we have the same civil liberties post Covid as we had before. And let’s see how they have redefined the economy.
Taxes and laws make society. Complete freedom from those is anarchy, literally. Right to do whatever you want when you want. Thus society is giving up absolute freedoms for benefits society brings ?‍♂️

Also be careful not to conflate what happens after covid with gov Brexit law changes (employment rights and so on).

And honestly, not meeting mates in a pub during a pandemic is a rational restriction. (Btw even in tier 3 still can meet people outside in public spaces)

I don't see how the gov would want to keep that or other restrictions they have had to impose, grudgingly and very late each time any longer than have too. Cause means less money for them and a headache.

Tories - we want least responsibility as possible. For anything ?
 
I’m a pretty even minded person. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories usually. I think the relaxation of rules over Christmas is crazy, but I’m in a minority and recognise that the government know they can’t control families not seeing each other over Christmas.
A professor in human behaviour and sociology made the point the gov are having to do something for xmas, cause like you said, people will say bollox to it, break the rules. But then afterwards people will just not give a toss and not go back to the rules and we still have several months of winter to get through. So a "sanctioned" small window of relaxation of rules might mitigate that.

People still might go bollox to it though.

So in a way it kinda points to the people controlling the politicians into making flawed decisions. Not a new uber authoritarian state.?

For starters there ain't enough police/army to enforce anything even if they went along with following orders to do so.

While we all may be sick of this shit, the uk isn't been setup to be like 1984. The leadership are far too incompetent for that ?
 
Taxes and laws make society. Complete freedom from those is anarchy, literally. Right to do whatever you want when you want. Thus society is giving up absolute freedoms for benefits society brings ?‍♂️

Also be careful not to conflate what happens after covid with gov Brexit law changes (employment rights and so on).

And honestly, not meeting mates in a pub during a pandemic is a rational restriction. (Btw even in tier 3 still can meet people outside in public spaces)

I don't see how the gov would want to keep that or other restrictions they have had to impose, grudgingly and very late each time any longer than have too. Cause means less money for them and a headache.

Tories - we want least responsibility as possible. For anything ?
Usually I would agree with political ideology you mention. Tory free market and freedom is evolving. I think we are in different times. It is apparent there is a new centre right / right wing ideology that has emerged over a number of years where the state is high on control and high on economic regeneration and redefinition. Russia and Brazil are good examples. Many would say that North Korea has driven this from the underground following the end of the Soviet Union which was it second largest trading partner. You could add China shifting from left to right in terms of economic controls while remaining steadfast left wing in terms of controlling its population. I think we are just seeing the latest new world order.
 
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