☣ Coronavirus ☣

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spinksy123 said:
This may sound ridiculous. Furloughed workers who've had the virus with Anti-bodies and T cell immunity. Crash course in basic nursing?

I'm assuming NHS staff use the App. Probably pinging all day around the hospitals? So losing a lot of staff there too?
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There is how much training you have to give someone until they become actually useful instead of having to be hand held by an overstretched qualified nurse.

I know they been using to-be junior nurses still going through training in hospitals. I follow one in social media - pretty horrific entry into nursing. Not sure how many would be able to cope with it for more than a day.

Also all the background checks needed, safe drug handling, patient safety etc.?

Ps: that's why using army to help out I think, known quantity

Plus not sure fancy Debbie from Kwikfit looking after me in hospital. Might end up with some cheap tyres though ?
 
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MrHullMysterious said:
I think it is because ITU beds are highly specialised; something like 4 highly trained staff to 1 patient etc.

And in normal times you go into ITU and recover or die relatively quickly. With covid they can be in ITU for 3 weeks to months.

So that is what makes it a game changer. Now we have more ITU beds, couple of staff to 3+ patients, and some have had only basic training for ITU.

Like you said, its staff which is the pinch point.

Probs one @Hally Can answer better.

- sage & onion crew
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ICU beds are one part of the NHS not really affected by underfunding, you always ways have beds available. Until now. Now we have doubled capacity and we are still struggling for beds. Which is why Covid is such a problem

PCR tests, 99.999999% survival rates etc dont really matter. Just ICU beds (and ambulances and hospital beds to a lesser extent) matter
 
spinksy123 said:
So following this analogy.

I type this not to cause friction at all. But to get some grasp on the conflict on this forum and probably almost everywhere else as well.

The whole country finds itself locked down.

Not because the survival rate isn't 99.5%*

Not because the average age of Covid related death hasn't been 82 years of age*

But because the NHS is woefully equipped for anything on any sort of national/International scale. Taking a very, very small percentage of cases in relation to population to reach full capacity?

Obviously the government could never come out with this and the bed statistics in terms of numbers at any press conference.

Intrigued by people's thoughts here. Or actual data.

*these 2 statistics used as they're often quoted by anti lockdown advocates
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The NHS is badly underfunded, that's been my life for years. But they could never ever have been prepared for this, it's that bad
 
MrHullMysterious said:
There is how much training you have to give someone until they become actually useful instead of having to be hand held by an overstretched qualified nurse.

I know they been using to-be junior nurses still going through training in hospitals. I follow one in social media - pretty horrific entry into nursing. Not sure how many would be able to cope with it for more than a day.

Also all the background checks needed, safe drug handling, patient safety etc.?

Ps: that's why using army to help out I think, known quantity

Plus not sure fancy Debbie from Kwikfit looking after me in hospital. Might end up with some cheap tyres though ?
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Just trying to think proactive. We probably haven't had so many people sitting at home and Hospital resources so stretched. Although I wouldn't Debbie near me with a syringe either..........Although if she may be okay for a bed bath.......would have to confirm that one.......?
 
Hally said:
ICU beds are one part of the NHS not really affected by underfunding, you always ways have beds available. Until now. Now we have doubled capacity and we are still struggling for beds. Which is why Covid is such a problem

PCR tests, 99.999999% survival rates etc dont really matter. Just ICU beds (and ambulances and hospital beds to a lesser extent) matter
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I was going to say this. With so few beds. PCR tests giving false results is almost completely irrelevant. And if everyone in london contracted Covid-19. Then in theory 46,500 people would succumb to the illness even with 99.5% survival rate. With most probably needing hospital treatment before. And it seems london has literally no where near that many beds(I know it doesn't pan out as simple as that. But the making a point the maths isn't favourable at all).
 
All lives being equal is a cornerstone of Western democracy and our judicial systems. You can literally be prosecuted for as much as turning somebody down for a job for being "too old" or disabled.
Here's a thought though... if the Titanic happened today, after children and women I'm quite certain that the pensioners on board would be given lifeboat preference over 30-40 year old men
When an infirm old gal steps onto the bus, you don't say "f*** it, her time has been and gone", you give up your seat
It's outrageous that healthcare professionals even be put in a position where they have to decide who lives and who dies in the developed world. That is a failure of government, past and present
Since we have a vaccine programme in place, we need to continue restrictions until we see the benefits of it.
Achieving herd immunity through vaccination is the exit strategy. If that fails, then it's back to the drawing board in regards to lockdowns. But to discuss the validity of lockdowns now at the peak of infection and with only a fraction of the population vaccinated is nonsensical
 
They are gonna bring it in, aren't they - everyone will have to have ten days hotel quarantine coming back from any trip abroad - paid for by self. This will last throughout summer.

metro.co.uk

Travellers may have to pay for their own hotel quarantine when they arrive in UK

The blanket travel measure would include Britons and tourists entering the UK from any country - not just high-risk destinations.
metro.co.uk metro.co.uk

I now have the feeling that not only will I not be able to travel abroad this year, I won't be able to travel abroad again in my lifetime. They will just keep saying "oh, you might come across a new strain"...and then say it again and again. And stop us travelling.

Track and trace = useless and pointless. Are vaccinations going the same way? We have them but can do feck all once we've had them? Anyone else think a bottle of whisky and a gun would be better now??
 
2H76 said:
They are gonna bring it in, aren't they - everyone will have to have ten days hotel quarantine coming back from any trip abroad - paid for by self. This will last throughout summer.

metro.co.uk

Travellers may have to pay for their own hotel quarantine when they arrive in UK

The blanket travel measure would include Britons and tourists entering the UK from any country - not just high-risk destinations.
metro.co.uk metro.co.uk

I now have the feeling that not only will I not be able to travel abroad this year, I won't be able to travel abroad again in my lifetime. They will just keep saying "oh, you might come across a new strain"...and then say it again and again. And stop us travelling.

Track and trace = useless and pointless. Are vaccinations going the same way? We have them but can do feck all once we've had them? Anyone else think a bottle of whisky and a gun would be better now??
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Keep it together mate, Too many places depend a lot on tourism for it to never re-start - albeit a slightly altered way.
 
2H76 said:
They are gonna bring it in, aren't they - everyone will have to have ten days hotel quarantine coming back from any trip abroad - paid for by self. This will last throughout summer.

metro.co.uk

Travellers may have to pay for their own hotel quarantine when they arrive in UK

The blanket travel measure would include Britons and tourists entering the UK from any country - not just high-risk destinations.
metro.co.uk metro.co.uk

I now have the feeling that not only will I not be able to travel abroad this year, I won't be able to travel abroad again in my lifetime. They will just keep saying "oh, you might come across a new strain"...and then say it again and again. And stop us travelling.

Track and trace = useless and pointless. Are vaccinations going the same way? We have them but can do feck all once we've had them? Anyone else think a bottle of whisky and a gun would be better now??
Click to expand...
720133D4-FA16-4A28-890B-657266139FD0.jpeg
 
Meanwhile in The Netherlands...it seems the evening curfew on top of the lockdown was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Anti-lockdown / anti-curfew demonstrations in Amsterdam, Eindhoven, The Hague and multiple smaller places you probably never heard about ended in severe violence against police, looting, setting cars on fire. Multiple arrest were made. It does not seem this is the end of it, new protests have been announced for tonight again.

From what I can see and hear about the protests is that they all start very friendly. No there was no social distancing and there were no masks. There is singing and hugging and there are people with small business asking the government to let them open up to save their companies.
Then the local governments decides the protests are getting to crowded, lots of riot police show up and things get grim. That moment seems like a fire starter for other groups to join or even overtake the protests, they are younger, more agressive and actually do wear masks but not for covid reasons.

I would never approve the violence...but I do see where this is coming from.
It's a combination of people with real criticism and concern, they get labelled as crazy, denier etc and their concerns ignored or downplayed and youngsters that are sick of staying inside for months without perspective. Bored teenagers that lost their side-job, can't go to school, can't visit friends, can't have a party. Explosive situation. This was to be expected and to be honest, I think it took quite a while still for this to explode.
Dutch government might even use the army to get this under control. Now two nights in a row, we'll have to wait and see what tonight brings.
 
2H76 said:
They are gonna bring it in, aren't they - everyone will have to have ten days hotel quarantine coming back from any trip abroad - paid for by self. This will last throughout summer.

metro.co.uk

Travellers may have to pay for their own hotel quarantine when they arrive in UK

The blanket travel measure would include Britons and tourists entering the UK from any country - not just high-risk destinations.
metro.co.uk metro.co.uk

I now have the feeling that not only will I not be able to travel abroad this year, I won't be able to travel abroad again in my lifetime. They will just keep saying "oh, you might come across a new strain"...and then say it again and again. And stop us travelling.

Track and trace = useless and pointless. Are vaccinations going the same way? We have them but can do feck all once we've had them? Anyone else think a bottle of whisky and a gun would be better now??
Click to expand...
I feel you. One of my concerns with this strategy solely build on vaccine hope.

But hey...people will say:
It's just a few months more...
It's just another summer..
It's just your holiday...
It's just your freedom..

?
 
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