☣ Coronavirus ☣

BenH

Active Member
Y'all know that virologists and doctors are not that worried about those different strains right?
It's the media that has blown this out of proportions. It's being used a pandemic within a pandemic, an even worse angry brother of Covid-19...
Dutch media is saying politicians are scared because of the horrifying images we see from the UK.
It's fearporn.

what’s the deal in Holland with pubs, bars that said pre Christmas they are opening mid January against the governments orders? Was thinking about this the other day and wondered if it had changed? Obviously the Covid situation has changed throughout the continent since this was first announced.
 

ElrowLovers

Active Member
The new strains may not be more lethal but they are more contagious it seems which is a problem...more cases

I agree. I'm not denying they exist but they are not more lethal indeed. Mutations are perfectly normal. Vaccinations will keep working.
So with the current extreme measures all over the world we should be able to stop the contagious part....,because lockdowns, masks, 1.5 meter distance all work right? That's what we're told.
 

ElrowLovers

Active Member
what’s the deal in Holland with pubs, bars that said pre Christmas they are opening mid January against the governments orders? Was thinking about this the other day and wondered if it had changed? Obviously the Covid situation has changed throughout the continent since this was first announced.
A unified group of pubs and bars are stillp planning to open January 19th.
Actually a restaurant already opened the other day and lots of people went to eat there. They are closed again now.
Situation here hasn't really changed, but the measures have changed and we're being scared with the "British variant" right now by our politicians so I believe a part of the unified group of pubs will not open but surely a part of them will. They are joined by a few small business too, like clothing shops and hairdressers. They do not get government support and they have spoken to the media that they will open January 19th no matter what.
The measures got extended to February 9th though, so I'm curious too. Keep you posted.
 

MrHullMysterious

Well-Known Member
Even if there is a drop of 10-15% of efficacy, they are still going to work well enough. Its a bit like a yale type key, and the immune system makes antibodies for each little notch. If a few notches changes it will still work.

The more problematic thing is they are more transmissible due to higher binding to the Ace2 receptor, which means younger people (school age kids) more likely to spread it than the original variants. (Younger people have lower expression of ace2 receptors, hence previous thought kids in school was low risk of spread).

So I think schools are going to need to be shut for longer than current thinking until vulnerable and most other adults vaccinated. And then of course vaccinate kids once the trial data has been gathered for under 18s.

Otherwise it will take off with schools as the main vector between households ?‍♂️

?
 

Hally

Well-Known Member
I agree. I'm not denying they exist but they are not more lethal indeed. Mutations are perfectly normal. Vaccinations will keep working.
So with the current extreme measures all over the world we should be able to stop the contagious part....,because lockdowns, masks, 1.5 meter distance all work right? That's what we're told.
The media, politicians or anyone here is suggesting they are more lethal or that mutations arent normal. As vaccines are proven to work that is being publicised.

Our variant is more transmissable and the worry is that previous restrictions arent enough to reduce spread to levels hospitals can cope with.

Struggling to see your point
 
Last edited:

Johnny Vodka

Well-Known Member
A unified group of pubs and bars are stillp planning to open January 19th.
Actually a restaurant already opened the other day and lots of people went to eat there. They are closed again now.
Situation here hasn't really changed, but the measures have changed and we're being scared with the "British variant" right now by our politicians so I believe a part of the unified group of pubs will not open but surely a part of them will. They are joined by a few small business too, like clothing shops and hairdressers. They do not get government support and they have spoken to the media that they will open January 19th no matter what.
The measures got extended to February 9th though, so I'm curious too. Keep you posted.

I really hope your country doesn't reach ~1600 people dying a day.
 

ElrowLovers

Active Member
The media, politicians or anyone here is suggesting they are more lethal or that mutations arent normal. As vaccines are proved to work that is being publicised.

Our variant is more transmissable and the worry is that previous restrictions arent enough to reduce spread to levels hospitals can cope with.

Struggling to see your point
My point is...there are not many other measures left to use in the restriction-toolkit.
Also, the government (and lots of people here) keep claiming lockdowns work, facemasks work, curfews work. With a mutation that is not more lethal, but more contagious...there should be no difference then. The measures should work so even if this variant is more contagious...the measures to stop that are already in place and at it's highest level ever in the entire EU.

Perhaps I should have stressed that it's the Dutch media and our politicians that are talking about 'horrible images from the UK', the terrifying new strain from the UK...etc. I've heard doctors and virologists talking with the right kind of nuance about the new strains, but the media and politicians neglect that and need it as fearporn. The "UK variant" is now THE keyword to keep already existing measures in place and keep the crowd scared and pliable.

If you think the current restrictions aren't enough...we might need to admit that we can't control everything that happens in life with lockdowns and closing everything up. If you feel restrictions should be even stricter...I can't even think of what inhumane actions governments need to think of to be even stricter right now.
 

ElrowLovers

Active Member
I really hope your country doesn't reach ~1600 people dying a day.
Me neither, but I'm also realistic. We cannot control or prevent everything that happens in life by keeping people locked up indefinitely.
I can relate to people having to lose relatives because of this virus, that's terrible off course.... but I can also relate to people that are now depressed or even suicidal because of their dying business.
 

Springal

Well-Known Member
Me neither, but I'm also realistic. We cannot control or prevent everything that happens in life by keeping people locked up indefinitely.
I can relate to people having to lose relatives because of this virus, that's terrible off course.... but I can also relate to people that are now depressed or even suicidal because of their dying business.
You’re not realistic at all and have never been about COVID. All along you said there would be no ‘wonder vaccines’, because we haven’t cured flu etc. So you’re wrong there.

you are also wrong by saying masks and lockdowns ‘don’t work’ - what does that mean? Do you honestly believe there would be no additional deaths if we didn’t have lockdowns or people didn’t wear masks?

lastly - how many additional suicides have there been compared to ‘normal’ vs additional deaths because of COVID? Yes there are issues but mental health is not a greater issues or cause for loss of life over COVID.
 
Last edited:

BenH

Active Member
I heard they are now changing it to anyone that died following a test within 60 days! Don’t no if it’s true or for what reason they might do that, it seems strange to make a change like that!
Nothing surprises me anymore, I’m usually quite optimistic in general but I’m losing hope atm!
Has anyone else heard this? It’s something my wife mentioned earlier!
ive pretty much stopped watching the news, I have abandoned social media too. This is the only place I really see anything Covid related right now.
 

Johnny Vodka

Well-Known Member
Me neither, but I'm also realistic. We cannot control or prevent everything that happens in life by keeping people locked up indefinitely.
I can relate to people having to lose relatives because of this virus, that's terrible off course.... but I can also relate to people that are now depressed or even suicidal because of their dying business.

So stop the lockdowns... and, for starters, how would you deal with the pressure on health services?
 

Hally

Well-Known Member
My point is...there are not many other measures left to use in the restriction-toolkit.
Also, the government (and lots of people here) keep claiming lockdowns work, facemasks work, curfews work. With a mutation that is not more lethal, but more contagious...there should be no difference then. The measures should work so even if this variant is more contagious...the measures to stop that are already in place and at it's highest level ever in the entire EU.

Perhaps I should have stressed that it's the Dutch media and our politicians that are talking about 'horrible images from the UK', the terrifying new strain from the UK...etc. I've heard doctors and virologists talking with the right kind of nuance about the new strains, but the media and politicians neglect that and need it as fearporn. The "UK variant" is now THE keyword to keep already existing measures in place and keep the crowd scared and pliable.

If you think the current restrictions aren't enough...we might need to admit that we can't control everything that happens in life with lockdowns and closing everything up. If you feel restrictions should be even stricter...I can't even think of what inhumane actions governments need to think of to be even stricter right now.
More contagious measures less effective, it's a numbers game

Fearporn or letting people know what is happening so they can change behaviour

What would be inhumane would be not acting and causing more needless deaths. The hospitals are carnage with these restrictions, without would be a lot lot worse

You do realise there is a vaccine and an endpoint to this?

In autumn there wasnt even a problem it was all false positives if I recall. Struggling to get you
 

djedwardsmith

Active Member
I can't believe I'm about to waste my time on this because none of it will sink in but f*** it, why not.

My point is...there are not many other measures left to use in the restriction-toolkit.
Also, the government (and lots of people here) keep claiming lockdowns work, facemasks work, curfews work. With a mutation that is not more lethal, but more contagious...there should be no difference then. The measures should work so even if this variant is more contagious...the measures to stop that are already in place and at it's highest level ever in the entire EU.

Right, there's two problems here. The first one is that you're not being clear about what you mean when you say "lockdowns work". Work in what way? Everyone in here has repeatedly told you that they are intended to supress transmission, and in turn to reduce pressure on hospitals. And in that respect, the data is categorical evidence that they do work.

Onto the second point - even if we take your logic at face value, the restrictions that have been put in place around face masks, social distancing etc...have all been done based on the initial understanding of the transmissibility of the virus - if this has now increased due to the mutation, it's only natural to re-evaluate our efforts to supress it and make sure they're adequate. There are many, many more things the government can do, many of which Scotland rolled out today so I expect us to follow suit shortly.

Perhaps I should have stressed that it's the Dutch media and our politicians that are talking about 'horrible images from the UK', the terrifying new strain from the UK...etc. I've heard doctors and virologists talking with the right kind of nuance about the new strains, but the media and politicians neglect that and need it as fearporn. The "UK variant" is now THE keyword to keep already existing measures in place and keep the crowd scared and pliable.

I don't understand how you can look at how the virus has grown exponentially in the UK since mid-December, and the number of deaths that keeps rising, and think the only reason your politicians are trying to warn of the dangers of it because they want to keep people scared. How about they don't want people to die in large numbers?

If you think the current restrictions aren't enough...we might need to admit that we can't control everything that happens in life with lockdowns and closing everything up. If you feel restrictions should be even stricter...I can't even think of what inhumane actions governments need to think of to be even stricter right now.

Restrictions could easily be stricter - and should be. No click and collect, no takeaway coffee's, curfews, close construction sites, close all schools. All are options that can be done, that worked in March, and would drastically reduce the transmission rate. None are nice, none are things any of us actively want to see if it can be avoided. But what's the alternative? Going down your previous logic of "Eh, they'd have been dead soon anyway?".
 

Hally

Well-Known Member
Me neither, but I'm also realistic. We cannot control or prevent everything that happens in life by keeping people locked up indefinitely.
I can relate to people having to lose relatives because of this virus, that's terrible off course.... but I can also relate to people that are now depressed or even suicidal because of their dying business.
Not indefinite though is it?
 
Top