Cocoon @ PACHA discussion

Middle of the dancefloor is not enough for me in ibiza.
For me Cocoon nneds Anesia,and Amnesia needs Cocoon.
i still can not understand this move,both parts of the deal are losing something.
 
Been going to Cocoon for years but haven't been to one in Pacha yet. Ricardo and Sonja this coming week and Nina and Sven the next ain't too bad an intro to the new Cocoon, and I'm expecting good things despite some of the slightly negative feedback. I tend to go in September too to avoid the horrific crowds so some of these negatives people are talking about might yet be a positive for me.
 
Moonear is the one atm! Caught her a few weekends ago and she was silly good. Nothing but good reports all summer long! Add Ricardo and you've got a very special night of music right there! Stand out September date imo.
 
jimmiz said:
Middle of the dancefloor is not enough for me in ibiza.
For me Cocoon nneds Anesia,and Amnesia needs Cocoon.
i still can not understand this move,both parts of the deal are losing something.
Click to expand...
In the long run amnesia will make more cash

Say they pay papa 60-70k per week to do cocoon
They change to a in house night , pay djs 15k ??

Save 45k plus
 
Vinyldreams said:
In the long run amnesia will make more cash

Say they pay papa 60-70k per week to do cocoon
They change to a in house night , pay djs 15k ??

Save 45k plus
Click to expand...

it‘s not such an easy a calculation as that. if a night is promoted in-house it also means the venue (instead of the promoter) also pays a lot of other costs apart from the DJ fees as such: promotion team, production, décor, artist transfer & accommodation etc etc.

and while your basic thought is correct, ‘in the long run’ they will ony make more money when they get more people through the door (ticket buying ones at that). and for that, quite a few things need to change for the future. this year amnesia has spent less on pyramid than what they used to pay to cocoon, but they have certainly not actually made any money with it - and with cocoon they very much did
 
I've been saying all year this will be my last cocoon trip with the lads. I'm very lucky to have a wife who gives me 5-6 days a year in Ibiza because she just understands.
Now that next year is the 20th anniversary I've got no f***ing chance of missing a cheeky trip ffs.
 
@stivi you're saying if Cocoon stayed on Monday but at Pacha it would do better even if went against Pyramid and Circo Loco?

Great analysis and writeup. Yes Cocoon is Amnesia no doubt, I'm glad to have experienced it. Numbers wise at Pacha it was slow but I liked the intimacy and ppl seemed like fans fans of Sven and Koze instead of just tourists. I liked the B2B! Very good set.

TBH when I looked at the lineups at the beginning of the season some warning bells went off. Same for Pyrmaid. I dunno I like Pyramids production too but maybe one day we'll get the real story about the lineups and what really happened. They needed more lineups like the two crazy ones in June and Aug 13th.

Next week pyrmaid is like a Cocoon date with Ricardo on the terrace and Nina in the Club room. I think it'll be good

I rambled on, I always enjoy reading yours and everyone's thoughts!
 
stivi said:
@Nobbie Q had cocoon stayed on a monday, pyramid would certainly not have happened on that same night. simple as that.
Click to expand...

It seems obvious now, but I totally understand why they went with the Wednesday option back then.

If it was Solomun Sunday + Cocoon Monday they could even have got clever with the ticketing. Like what Space did back in the day. I.e. €60 for both parties or something. Or €20 pre 2am to get some of the Circo crowd there earlier. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
I just want to throw a different angle on the Amnesia/Pyramid cost/profit debate. It's another when I was back in clubs story I'm afraid:

We had a relatively mediocre midweek session. A pretty unremarkable 300-350 people in the side room. Enough to make a profit at average £10 spend a head (admission was £3-4 and drinks £1-£1.50), but always susceptible to threats from the local competition.
We had a change of GM and one of the changes he implemented was bringing in an external promoter to takeover that session.
Me and the other deputy questioned this tactic, as although the promoter brought 200 extra punters in, we lost the door takings. Average spend per head didn't change, but price of admission went up, so we were effectively taking the same kind of money as before but at a lower profitability.
When me and my fellow deputy question our GM, his logic was quite simple:
Perception is everything.
You get 500 ppl in a 750 capacity room and you have a pumping night with a good reputation and a strong following. One in which the competition are unlikely to fancy taking on.
But the same night with 300 looks weak. So although you are effectively making more money, you're sending out a bad message to your customers and your competition.
He was right.
Some years later he was moved on and his replacement canned the promoters.
It took about 6months, but the night went from 500 ppl to 150 very quickly. Those first couple of months we took a lot more money and the top brass were very happy. But they were left scratching their heads when punters started looking elsewhere.
 
white_isle_calling said:
I just want to throw a different angle on the Amnesia/Pyramid cost/profit debate. It's another when I was back in clubs story I'm afraid:

We had a relatively mediocre midweek session. A pretty unremarkable 300-350 people in the side room. Enough to make a profit at average £10 spend a head (admission was £3-4 and drinks £1-£1.50), but always susceptible to threats from the local competition.
We had a change of GM and one of the changes he implemented was bringing in an external promoter to takeover that session.
Me and the other deputy questioned this tactic, as although the promoter brought 200 extra punters in, we lost the door takings. Average spend per head didn't change, but price of admission went up, so we were effectively taking the same kind of money as before but at a lower profitability.
When me and my fellow deputy question our GM, his logic was quite simple:
Perception is everything.
You get 500 ppl in a 750 capacity room and you have a pumping night with a good reputation and a strong following. One in which the competition are unlikely to fancy taking on.
But the same night with 300 looks weak. So although you are effectively making more money, you're sending out a bad message to your customers and your competition.
He was right.
Some years later he was moved on and his replacement canned the promoters.
It took about 6months, but the night went from 500 ppl to 150 very quickly. Those first couple of months we took a lot more money and the top brass were very happy. But they were left scratching their heads when punters started looking elsewhere.
Click to expand...

very good point.

the whole in-house vs promoter produced debate is a pretty interesting one. of course you can save money producing inhouse, but you completely start from scratch whereas an established promoter already has reputation, crowd etc. I'm personally not sold on the 'inhouse is always better' opinion at all.
 
stivi said:
it‘s not such an easy a calculation as that. if a night is promoted in-house it also means the venue (instead of the promoter) also pays a lot of other costs apart from the DJ fees as such: promotion team, production, décor, artist transfer & accommodation etc etc.

and while your basic thought is correct, ‘in the long run’ they will ony make more money when they get more people through the door (ticket buying ones at that). and for that, quite a few things need to change for the future. this year amnesia has spent less on pyramid than what they used to pay to cocoon, but they have certainly not actually made any money with it - and with cocoon they very much did
Click to expand...
Sure ,,

My figures were a guess ,,

How many nights are in-house at amnesia ??

Elrow - independent
Music on - must be

The rest ???

Hi,,, I think is all in-house now

Priv- only resistance.

I think this is really damaging the nights as a whole ..
take Glitterbox it’s the same every week I’ve heard some embarrassing sets in there
Dunmore won’t give to much of a shit as he’s been paid (whatever the fee is ) and he’s taking no risk if the have a quiet night
Like the start of the season upto August

Be interesting to see what independent nights have a good season
 
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