Aragones Appeal Successful

That's ridiculous- it's like saying that if you watched the Rodney King video in a certain way it wasn't really 4 white officers beating up an unarmed black man.
 
I read somewhere (I think BBC) that he was initially charged and fined for something akin to bringing the game into disrepute. But then the stakes got raised and the charge was changed to racism.

The appeal he somehow won was apparently against this more serious charge. I'm not sure what happens to the original charge, however.

Either way, he gets off light for patently offensive remarks. Shame.
 
i would be interested if any spanish speakers could let us know exactly what he said as i was reading yesterday that much of the problem was caused by a mischevious/malevolent willful mistranslation of his remarks.
 
Padster said:
That's ridiculous- it's like saying that if you watched the Rodney King video in a certain way it wasn't really 4 white officers beating up an unarmed black man.
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I really dont agree with that. There is only one way of interpretting physical violence but there are loads of ways of interpreting what someone says, specially in another culture/language.

I cant remember what it was he said exactly, it was undoubtedly racist though, and he shouldve been fined for it. However to brand him a rascist is going too far considering he is probably the main reason Etoo is the player he is now. He took him under his wing when he joined Mallorca at 18 and played a major role in his developement, not just as a player but as a person. Etoo still affectionately calls him "abuelo" (grand father).

I see him as your typical elderly man who was born in a different era and when it was acceptable to say things which aren't now (a bit like Ron Atkinson!). Perhaps a person like him shouldnt hold such a high profile job, but thats for the Spanish FA to decide.
 
Buckley said:
He referred to Theirry Henry as ´a black sh1t´. Or so translations here claimed
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yeah but ferd's point is that, rightly or wrongly, that has different connotations in spain than in does here.

it translates as horrificly offensive here, whilst in spanish it may be a lesser insult.
 
I don't think the phrase "black ****" really has less of an impact in any one language than another! Some phrases might... that one, no way.

and yes, he should be fined. And not the paltry 2000 euros they initially levied. The Spanish FA really doesn't care, though, if you ask me. They put out a statement supporting the court's decision!
 
grego said:
yeah but ferd's point is that, rightly or wrongly, that has different connotations in spain than in does here.

it translates as horrificly offensive here, whilst in spanish it may be a lesser insult.
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Sh***nigg** means the same all over the globe.

Apparently, he apolozied according to newspapers
 
Aragonés is a shame for the country, as a trainer and as a persone.

Ferd, he said: "Tú (reyes) eres mejor que ese negro de mierda"
But I'm with Ferd in this one, those words are rude and unpolite and bordering any decence, but unfortunatly in this country it's not THAT bad, we are very unpolite and rude.
BTW, if he would said french instead Black then I wonder what would happened.
 
Ferd said:
I see him as your typical elderly man who was born in a different era and when it was acceptable to say things which aren't now (a bit like Ron Atkinson!). Perhaps a person like him shouldnt hold such a high profile job, but thats for the Spanish FA to decide.
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Sorry for editing Ferd but couldn't say it better
 
silvia said:
unfortunatly in this country it's not THAT bad, we are very unpolite and rude.
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It's not THAT bad, if you're not Black.

Sorry, Sil, Ferd, Grego.. I just don't buy it. Doesn't matter how rude a society is, a racial insult is a racial insult. Russians make the Spanish look polite, but if they call you a chyornozhope (black ass), it's meant as an insult. It's not just an impolite way of describing the color of your backside!
 
Morbyd said:
It's not THAT bad, if you're not Black.

Sorry, Sil, Ferd, Grego.. I just don't buy it. Doesn't matter how rude a society is, a racial insult is a racial insult. Russians make the Spanish look polite, but if they call you a chyornozhope (black ass), it's meant as an insult. It's not just an impolite way of describing the color of your backside!
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Morbyd, I forgot to say that this is not an excuse. My point was that context it's important.
But as I said before, there's no excuse and he is a shame as it is the Spanish FA
 
Morbyd said:
It's not THAT bad, if you're not Black.

Sorry, Sil, Ferd, Grego.. I just don't buy it. Doesn't matter how rude a society is, a racial insult is a racial insult. Russians make the Spanish look polite, but if they call you a chyornozhope (black ass), it's meant as an insult. It's not just an impolite way of describing the color of your backside!
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you're missing the point, of course the social context is important cos that determines the intended meaning and it cannot be questioned that the interpretation of that meaning differs by country/culture.

moreover, what is insulting in one country is meaningless/child's play in another. like insulting people's mother and stuff, it differs by culture, region, country, tribe.

what he said is abhorrent to me, its just not as simple as saying it is abhorrent to everyone though.
 
grego said:
you're missing the point, of course the social context is important cos that determines the intended meaning and it cannot be questioned that the interpretation of that meaning differs by country/culture.

moreover, what is insulting in one country is meaningless/child's play in another. like insulting people's mother and stuff, it differs by culture, region, country, tribe.

what he said is abhorrent to me, its just not as simple as saying it is abhorrent to everyone though.
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Not to labour this point on too much longer, but I think you're missing my point.

Yes, certain things are insulting in some places and not in others. One example that comes to mind is a friend of mine whose Italian grandparents would call her "the fat one" as a term of endearment, but she having grown up in the States found that hurtful. Yo mama, other phrases - yes, I agree.

But if you call someone a "black sh1t" there really isnt an alternative interpretation based on societal grounds. At least, not in any country I've visited. And especially not if you're on the receiving end.
 
Morbyd,

I'm not sure I can discuss this with you due my lacks on english, but you seem to forget that language implies lots more of things than the exact meaning of the word, it's not like 1+1= 2
So, yes, the context it's important. And the place is important. And the moment is important. But for example COJER in Spain is just a standar word, while COJER in Argentina means to F*ck. And we are talking about the same language.

I think the clearest example of what I try to say is that you seem much more offended by the De mierda bit while I think (me, spanish, who knows the context and the language) the worst is the word Negro. See what I mean?
 
BTW morbyd, how many times have I been told that I've been lost in translation cos I haven't been able to calibrate the real meaning and intention of a determined word?
Can't it be the case, specially considering that both spanish of the forum are agreeing in here? And remember that both spanish also agreed that this man is a shame ;)
 
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