50% UK Tax Rate

[Morbyd]

I've read a couple of articles about this over the weekend.

Not sure if any of our UK Spotlighters fall into this category, but WTF??

What's the incentive to work if more than half of anything you make is immediately taken away from you? Insanity...

If I ever end up a UK voter, I might actually have to support the Torries

 

[grego]

I've read a couple of articles about this over the weekend.

Not sure if any of our UK Spotlighters fall into this category, but WTF??

What's the incentive to work if more than half of anything you make is immediately taken away from you? Insanity...

If I ever end up a UK voter, I might actually have to support the Torries

it used to be worse, remember the beatles song taxman "1 for you, 19 for me".

don't know what the threshold was, but the taxman kept 19 shillings in every pound.........makes 50% look appealing!

 

[Morbyd]

I forget... so there were 20 shillings in a pound? I suppose 50% is comparatively better

We've got a 13% flat tax rate here 8)

One article I read was about Andrey Arshavin being a bit upset about his salary at Arsenal. His gross is more than he got at Zenit St Pete, but he's taking home substantially less net. He's a little upset...

 

[fatphilb]

Isn't it only 50% beyond a certain limit?

 

[Morbyd]

Isn't it only 50% beyond a certain limit?

I think it's the top 750,000 taxpayers... I'm not sure what the income cut-off is.

 

[HDR]

it used to be worse, remember the beatles song taxman "1 for you, 19 for me".

don't know what the threshold was, but the taxman kept 19 shillings in every pound.........makes 50% look appealing!

My parents left the UK in the early 70s the year after he was taxed 90% of his earnings running a small company... They decided that they didn't want to bring up their family somewhere where you could earn more on the dole than by working and left with nothing to come to Switzerland. As an uneducated self-made man and die-hard British bloke, it was tough for him, even as 7 year old I remember how sad he was at the demise of the UK then. My Mum, who is French, was very happy in England but also pretty chuffed to go somewhere that spoke her lingo

 

[Olly]

it should be 85%

people should be incentivised to work for their fellow man not lining their pockets parasiting off the serfs

the super-rich have got away with murder for years

this is where nu-labour screwed up bigtime in 97 - but they were so in awe of the fat cats that they sucked them off rather than challenging the obscene wealth disparitys and bonus cultures that have fuked everything up now.

if michael caine (who I normally admire) wants to have a hissy fit about it, he can, but he should be made to cough up regardless.

 

[Ulster83]

I've generally always been against raising the top level of tax and 50% sounds absolutely bloody obscene. The thing that irritates me is that Labour are only doing it to keep the left of their party smiling, as the few billion is will raise is pilfering in the face of the huge debt that is being generated at the minute. This is not a principled position by our rubbish government.

However, as disgusting as the 85% that Olly wishes to see levied, its a damn sight more attractive that 13%. Tax serves a purpose! As a society we ought to be trying to create a fair and just society. That should be our purpose in life!

It's hard to judge coming from a society that has only gone so far, but given the massive waste of money in a well-meaning country like the UK the idea of massive redistribution/social welfare on a scale Olly talks of is terrifying.

 

[HDR]

it should be 85%

people should be incentivised to work for their fellow man not lining their pockets parasiting off the serfs

the super-rich have got away with murder for years

this is where nu-labour screwed up bigtime in 97 - but they were so in awe of the fat cats that they sucked them off rather than challenging the obscene wealth disparitys and bonus cultures that have fuked everything up now.

if michael caine (who I normally admire) wants to have a hissy fit about it, he can, but he should be made to cough up regardless.

I agree in principle, particularly in the light of recent events... Although 85% sounds like an "Olly extreme statement" designed to generate lots of internet banter !

However, it is easy to end up chasing away people who want to create jobs and be socially aware by paying taxes etc. (We were a billion miles from super rich, more like very very working class made good by sheer pig-headness and hard work!)

There is a fine line between being happy to pay taxes and support good function of society and feeling like you are being fleeced and abused. Don't you think ???!!!

 

[I-Spy]

it should be 85%

people should be incentivised to work for their fellow man not lining their pockets parasiting off the serfs

the super-rich have got away with murder for years

this is where nu-labour screwed up bigtime in 97 - but they were so in awe of the fat cats that they sucked them off rather than challenging the obscene wealth disparitys and bonus cultures that have fuked everything up now.

if michael caine (who I normally admire) wants to have a hissy fit about it, he can, but he should be made to cough up regardless.

What a load of tosh

 

[djchewie]

50% for earnings over £150k, thats after 20% for the first £34.8k and then 40% till the £150k mark... PLUS NI Contributions....

fairness isnt caning people who have been fortunate to get themselves a good job and a good wage, who have decided to save long and hard, make sound choices to what they decide to do with the money they have earned, not subsidising the arseholes who make the choice to sit on arses and DO NOTHING.

What is more disgusting are govts who cant manage to spend within their means and see normal hardworking people as a goto when things go tits up, due to lack of contigency planning on there part and living in a dreamworld that there would be an end to boom and bust.

for those who advocate a redistribution of wealth on a massive scale, why dont you take the lead and give away all the money you earn?

 

[spacemonkey]

1% of the population will pay additional tax on any earnings over 150k

It works out to an additional £220 a month in tax if you are on 150k a year - which is not a huge amount if you are taking home almost 8k a month is it??

If the money was put back into improving the country's infrastructure, health service and education then great

Unfortunately it seems to be used to fund a nation of sponging whingers who live on a diet of takeaways and jeremy kyle.

 

[Morbyd]

What a load of tosh

Agreed.

However, as disgusting as the 85% that Olly wishes to see levied, its a damn sight more attractive that 13%. Tax serves a purpose! As a society we ought to be trying to create a fair and just society. That should be our purpose in life!

I was always very much in favor of graduated income tax (we had a top bracket of 36% in the US) until I moved to Russia.

I now fully believe that the 13% flat tax rate is the wave of the future. People just go ahead and pay it. Most people don't look for a million deductions or way to reduce taxes. The rich don't move their official residence to Switzerland or Monaco. It's easy and fair.

There is one caveat - the Russian government has been fortunate enough to have oil, gas and metals revenues to tax, which means they had a budget surplus and stored away a big rainy day fund which has helped lessen the effects of the current global downturn (unlike the US and UK, their bank & business bail-outs were funded from government savings, not new government debt).

I see the purpose of tax not as some kind of tool for social engineering. It's a means to fund the government services that we've come to expect. If you keep boosting taxes, you boost costs, which in turn eats up those extra tax revenues... it's a bit of a vicious cycle.

 

[Olly]

the UK tax system stinks and it has done for years.

we should be like a scandinavian social democracy where opportunities are even, people don't have class hangups and people have a decent standard of living

there's no fairness in this country because the stinking rich can put their kids through bupa and eton - and until they are nationalised, we will never have a true meritocracy

thatcher's legacy - she was supposed to bring in meritocracy but the country is as divided as ever and in the 21st century, that is obscene

and the tory boys who worshipped at her alter in their yoot (instead of going to raves like normal kids) and who now lead the tories will slash taxes and screw the economy even further

everytime i see george osborne's cocky, smug face on tv I just want to punch the screen and I think most other people do too... the one obstacle to a tory landslide at the next election. Labour are awful too. I'm voting Green.

 

[HDR]

Agreed.


I was always very much in favor of graduated income tax (we had a top bracket of 36% in the US) until I moved to Russia.

I now fully believe that the 13% flat tax rate is the wave of the future. People just go ahead and pay it. Most people don't look for a million deductions or way to reduce taxes. The rich don't move their official residence to Switzerland or Monaco. It's easy and fair.

There is one caveat - the Russian government has been fortunate enough to have oil, gas and metals revenues to tax, which means they had a budget surplus and stored away a big rainy day fund which has helped lessen the effects of the current global downturn (unlike the US and UK, their bank & business bail-outs were funded from government savings, not new government debt).

I see the purpose of tax not as some kind of tool for social engineering. It's a means to fund the government services that we've come to expect. If you keep boosting taxes, you boost costs, which in turn eats up those extra tax revenues... it's a bit of a vicious cycle.

My tax rate is about 3 times yours. And I earn very little in the charitable sector and my wealth is limited to a percentage of a home and a car with a small untaxed savings account

Moral of the story, do not come to Switzerland for tax breaks if you are a normal person, move to Russia

 

[I-Spy]

50% for earnings over £150k, thats after 20% for the first £34.8k and then 40% till the £150k mark... PLUS NI Contributions....

fairness isnt caning people who have been fortunate to get themselves a good job and a good wage, who have decided to save long and hard, make sound choices to what they decide to do with the money they have earned, not subsidising the arseholes who make the choice to sit on arses and DO NOTHING.

What is more disgusting are govts who cant manage to spend within their means and see normal hardworking people as a goto when things go tits up, due to lack of contigency planning on there part and living in a dreamworld that there would be an end to boom and bust.

for those who advocate a redistribution of wealth on a massive scale, why dont you take the lead and give away all the money you earn?

Yes I agree.

Also...if you make taxes too unfair then people will take chances to avoid paying them or move abroad and just come here less than 6 months a year.
Taxes have been reasonable for a while now, even though how they have been spent leaves a lot to be desired.
We need high earners living in the UK it creates a feeling of success and prosperity which filters down through society.

 

[Olly]

....but the money doesn't filter down - that's the great free market myth...

what happens is that high earners in low tax regimes don't really contribute very much to the state coffers, which means that the state has to find other sources of revenue, resulting in massive borrowing and massive debt.

Now I agree that a lot of money gets wasted, but it's too easy to blame spongers (a problem, which in any case is always exaggerated by the rightwing tabloids), it's trident, it's ministries that don't do anything, it's excessive pay at the higher levels of the civil service, too many people on the state payroll and also the massive costs of an olympics we can't afford and an increasingly authoriarian state backed up by an increasingly powerful quasi-military police we don't want and a multi-billion pound anti-drugs strategy which has been a total disaster for nearly 40 years. The welfare state, the environment, transport meanwhile, are all under massive pressure and even saving money on waste elsewhere isn't going to be enough to address those challenges. The good times are over. That money HAS to be funded... Companies talk about corporate social responsibility and give us all the PR about how much they recycle yet their directors don't want to pay up on a personal level. It stinks.

On a more philosophical point, taxation should be to fund public services but also to stop society falling into chaos. If you follow the philosophy espoused by certain people [ie fuk the poor] then you are creating an underclass, an isolated, restless, ill-educated poor that has the means to cause social chaos. It is therefore in the rich's self-interest (let alone the morality of it) to cough up and help their fellow countrymen, because otherwise we are ALL going to pay the price - and that is exactly what has been happening... far higher crime in US and UK in the free-market years than 'scary socialist' Europe.... and it isn't entirely coincidental. Bashing the poor might be fun in the pub, but ultimately the reasons for poverty are wide and complex and shutting the door, saying they're all scroungers isn't going to take the problem away...

 

[Morbyd]

No one is bashing the poor... but using the tax code for social engineering is just misguided. You'll have a hard time convincing the rich that it's in their best interests!

Also, you've just put out a list of inefficiencies in government spending, but then said the good times are over and money has to be funded. Which is it? Cut the fat or shake down the rich to make up the difference?

what happens is that high earners in low tax regimes don't really contribute very much to the state coffers, which means that the state has to find other sources of revenue, resulting in massive borrowing and massive debt.

Well, you've got Russia as an example of a state that has, as noted above, not resulted to borrowing or debt. I think China is in a similar boat (although I don't know their tax system). I'm sure there are other examples.

 

[Olly]

No one is bashing the poor... but using the tax code for social engineering is just misguided. You'll have a hard time convincing the rich that it's in their best interests!

Also, you've just put out a list of inefficiencies in government spending, but then said the good times are over and money has to be funded. Which is it? Cut the fat or shake down the rich to make up the difference?

No, the point I made is that I acknowledged a list of areas where I AGREE that there is waste. HOWEVER, this is more than offset by the massive list of challenges facing the next govt. I cannot see how anything other than a high-tax system is going to pay for what the govt needs to do?

 

[grego]

On a more philosophical point, taxation should be to fund public services but also to stop society falling into chaos. If you follow the philosophy espoused by certain people [ie fuk the poor] then you are creating an underclass, an isolated, restless, ill-educated poor that has the means to cause social chaos. It is therefore in the rich's self-interest (let alone the morality of it) to cough up and help their fellow countrymen, because otherwise we are ALL going to pay the price - and that is exactly what has been happening... far higher crime in US and UK in the free-market years than 'scary socialist' Europe.... and it isn't entirely coincidental. Bashing the poor might be fun in the pub, but ultimately the reasons for poverty are wide and complex and shutting the door, saying they're all scroungers isn't going to take the problem away...

when thatcher's policies destroyed the lives of millions in the 80s, what unintentionally happened is

a) some of what olly described, an underclass was created who literally had to scrounge to survive and don't know any different. many are simply creations of that society. you can't reason with them on a level of "why don't you get a job?etc, etc".....it doesn't register.

b) those who worked and struggled and perservered to battle through the thatcher years, to make something for themselves and their families, then you think for one minute they don't support the idea of paying a little more tax. no-one who lived through that period and was subjected to her administration would argue with a policy to redistribute wealth so that another generation doesn't have to suffer the same fate.

as for all the laissez-faire arguments, it's a joke to think that this type of policy somehow stagnates that. it affects less than a couple of percent of the population, many of those affected will earn more in the daily interest on their savings than this affects their income tax each year. jesus, even truly socialist countries like cuba allow people to operate in a free market way, so that people can better their lives, earn more, etc, etc.

corrupt MPs and the rich moaning about paying tax!!