Very Important!!!! Eta's Bomb Alert!!!

[seancupthera]

Really? I think it's a very simple but enlightennning comparation.

I fail to see the connection between a legitimate army resisting the occupation of their country which has been invaded and a force which is terrorising their own country because they want to break away from it.

One is fighting foreigners, the other fighting their own.

 

[Nails]

Seriously misguided and factually incorrect comment there mate.

Whilst I agree that it is not entirely factually correct and that some might find it offensive. In simple terms it is about the closest comparison you will get that people will understand and I'm sure that no offence was meant.

Hail hail!

 

[FinnBoy]

On a more positive note,now the police and guardia civil will consentrate on real security issues instead of chasing harmless clubbers

 

[grego]

I fail to see the connection between a legitimate army resisting the occupation of their country which has been invaded and a force which is terrorising their own country because they want to break away from it.

One is fighting foreigners, the other fighting their own.

what about bombings in NI??

besides ideologically, culturally, lingusitically, socially i would say ETA and the basque country is far more distinct from "their own country" than the IRA would be in relation to England/UK.

 

[ibizaboi24]

any news on beefed up security? what is the gov doing?

 

[seancupthera]

what about bombings in NI??

besides ideologically, culturally, linguistically, socially i would say ETA and the basque country is far more distinct from "their own country" than the IRA would be in relation to England/UK.

I repeat my original statement in regard to yours... Seriously misguided and factually incorrect comment there mate.

Bombings in the north of Ireland? Enlighten me to those carried out against non-military targets or carried out without warning.

Your other points...

ideologically (an organized collection of ideas) - The Republic has always stood by it's aim to become a Socialist Republic, far removed from the monarchy of the UK

culturally (patterns of human activity and the symbolic structures that give such activity significance) - The Republic was a largely agricultural nation and was vastly different to most of the UK which was heavily industrialised. A culture based on simple socialism bears no resemblance to the UK at this time.

linguistically (the language of a given nation) - Ever heard of Gaelic?

socially - Not sure to what you refer but, suffice to say, life in rural Ireland was not comparable to most of the UK.


I'm sure no offence was meant by Silvia but it saddens me that people in the UK, and outside of it, are so ignorant to what happens on their doorstep.

 

[swervedriver1971]

Morbyd, he lost even me.

 

[Morbyd]

Morbyd, he lost even me.

I'm with Grego, and also Silvia/Nails on this one.

Despite obvious differences, it's a fair comparison for outsiders to get a vague grasp on the subject... about the closest 2 such conflicts around.

If you want to go into details, then no, but in general similar. (I think ETA and the IRA even shared information/tactics at various points in their history)

 

[silvia]

I repeat my original statement in regard to yours... Seriously misguided and factually incorrect comment there mate.

Bombings in the north of Ireland? Enlighten me to those carried out against non-military targets or carried out without warning.

Your other points...

ideologically (an organized collection of ideas) - The Republic has always stood by it's aim to become a Socialist Republic, far removed from the monarchy of the UK

culturally (patterns of human activity and the symbolic structures that give such activity significance) - The Republic was a largely agricultural nation and was vastly different to most of the UK which was heavily industrialised. A culture based on simple socialism bears no resemblance to the UK at this time.

linguistically (the language of a given nation) - Ever heard of Gaelic?

socially - Not sure to what you refer but, suffice to say, life in rural Ireland was not comparable to most of the UK.


I'm sure no offence was meant by Silvia but it saddens me that people in the UK, and outside of it, are so ignorant to what happens on their doorstep.

As everyone said: it was a very simple but clear comparation to explain on the run what ETA is
I can't get into this debate because I don't know enough the irish thing but I wouldn't stood so strongly in the differences. All you pointed above could be said about the basques.

 

[silvia]

If you want to go into details, then no, but in general similar. (I think ETA and the IRA even shared information/tactics at various points in their history)

Exactly, and spanish and basc governement always have the IRA ending as an example.

I imagine the IRA is the same, but the fact is that ETA involves so many things and so many years that most people doesn't have information and knowledge enough to talk about it.

 

[grego]

ok then, to counter back (i have to laugh at your wikipedia definitions tho, i'll do mine off the top of my head if you don't mind)

I repeat my original statement in regard to yours... Seriously misguided and factually incorrect comment there mate.

Bombings in the north of Ireland? Enlighten me to those carried out against non-military targets or carried out without warning..

Omagh. (btw - does carrying out a bombing but giving a warning make it alright)

ideologically (an organized collection of ideas) - The Republic has always stood by it's aim to become a Socialist Republic, far removed from the monarchy of the UK.

this is a difficult one but when you say the Republic, well there is in fact already one of Ireland and the Northern part is, in fact, a distinct and recognised country (albeit in a unique relationship as part of the UK). The Basques enjoy neither of these fortunes.

culturally (patterns of human activity and the symbolic structures that give such activity significance) - The Republic was a largely agricultural nation and was vastly different to most of the UK which was heavily industrialised. A culture based on simple socialism bears no resemblance to the UK at this time..

not sure what an industrialised UK has got to do with this particular argument, which is a comparison between IRA/irish nationalism and ETA/basque nationalism

linguistically (the language of a given nation) - Ever heard of Gaelic?.

no not heard of gaelic, i can speak it tho if that helps. regardless, the basque language is unique amongst Indo-european languages so in terms of that as a measure of distinct identity, it is unparalled in europe.

socially - Not sure to what you refer but, suffice to say, life in rural Ireland was not comparable to most of the UK.

again not sure why you are bringing up these points about the irish republican movement. i agree with you. we are discussing the similarity/comparison between that and basque nationalism/ETA.

I'm sure no offence was meant by Silvia but it saddens me that people in the UK, and outside of it, are so ignorant to what happens on their doorstep.

judging by your location i'll counter using your own words "it saddens me that people are so ignorant to what happens on their doorstep", to the extent that you think ETA consider Spain "their own country"

 

[sonofsmurf]

if i see anyone with flip flops, shorts, a balaclava and ak47 i'll be sure to tell the guardia civil.

flying in 12 hours. ETA are around all of the time just like any other terrorist group. Carry on as normal and cross your fingers...

Who knows maybe the closing of the clubs was due to intelligence and the drug issue was a smoke screen to avoid damaging the islands tourism too much?

Conspiracy theories ahoy...

 

[seancupthera]

In reply to grego.....

Omagh???? 3 warnings were given on the day, and several before, that this would happen. These were ignored by the police and security services. Several men were arrested and charged and Colm Murphy got 14 years in jail..... until it was discovered that his 'confession' was falsely obtained.
I never said it was right (or wrong) to carry out bombings, only pointing out the intention to avoid killing members of the public.
Bottom line on this argument anyway, it wasn't carried out by the IRA, so your mentioning of it is pointless.

Your statement "when you say the Republic, well there is in fact already one of Ireland and the Northern part is, in fact, a distinct and recognised country (albeit in a unique relationship as part of the UK). The Basques enjoy neither of these fortunes" whilst entirely factually correct, supports my argument that the two conflicts are vastly different.

The rest of my points were intended to distinguish between the two issues. If you can't see that, fair enough, there's no point in my continuing the discussion.

One final point. At no time did I say that I thought ETA considered Spain their own country!?


Didn't intend this to become a full-scale discussion.... only to point out the in correctness of the original statement.

 

[grego]

In reply to grego.....

Omagh???? 3 warnings were given on the day, and several before, that this would happen. These were ignored by the police and security services. Several men were arrested and charged and Colm Murphy got 14 years in jail..... until it was discovered that his 'confession' was falsely obtained.
I never said it was right (or wrong) to carry out bombings, only pointing out the intention to avoid killing members of the public.
Bottom line on this argument anyway, it wasn't carried out by the IRA, so your mentioning of it is pointless..

wtf!?!??! so if i point a gun at your head and say, i'm gonna shoot in 3 seconds unless you move, then what!, somehow this takes away any part of culpability from the bomber and places it on the policeif that is not what you are saying then what is the point of you saying

Your statement "when you say the Republic, well there is in fact already one of Ireland and the Northern part is, in fact, a distinct and recognised country (albeit in a unique relationship as part of the UK). The Basques enjoy neither of these fortunes" whilst entirely factually correct, supports my argument that the two conflicts are vastly different

The rest of my points were intended to distinguish between the two issues. If you can't see that, fair enough, there's no point in my continuing the discussion

One final point. At no time did I say that I thought ETA considered Spain their own country!?


Didn't intend this to become a full-scale discussion.... only to point out the in correctness of the original statement.

we're confsuing two issues here. i think there is a similarity to be made between IRA and ETA, especially in a brief way. but the main jist of my debate with you was your clear lack of understanding of ETA and the basque nation by stating this:

I fail to see the connection between a legitimate army resisting the occupation of their country which has been invaded and a force which is terrorising their own country because they want to break away from it.

One is fighting foreigners, the other fighting their own.

when you say you never said that "ETA considered Spain their own country", well you certainly implied that in the above quote with the "terrorising their own country" comment.

 

[puppylover]

any news on beefed up security? what is the gov doing?

We got a casual text mess. off the villa company saying "all fine - go to airport as planned tomorrow" on Sat evening. Got to the airport on Sunday am - no extra security outside airport, inside not much more than ususal, apart from having to take shoes,belts off for scanning - no change whatsoever at the airport that I could see - slight delays on flights but that was it...

 

[seancupthera]

wtf!?!??! so if i point a gun at your head and say, i'm gonna shoot in 3 seconds unless you move, then what!, somehow this takes away any part of culpability from the bomber and places it on the policeif that is not what you are saying then what is the point of you saying

I never said it was right (or wrong) to carry out bombings

we're confsuing two issues here. i think there is a similarity to be made between IRA and ETA, especially in a brief way. but the main jist of my debate with you was your clear lack of understanding of ETA and the basque nation by stating this:

Didn't claim to have a full understanding of ETA and the Basque area. My point was only highlight differences in history, cause and operations

when you say you never said that "ETA considered Spain their own country", well you certainly implied that in the above quote with the "terrorising their own country" comment.

Granted, can see how you may have thought thats what i implied. However, that was not my intention.