I agree 150% with Morbyd's comments: Jerseyboy's remarks are the worst I have seen on this site. I am only encouraged by the replies from other members of the board condeming such views.
Jerseyboy, keep your racist, narrow-minded , low IQ views off the board!
I am an American and was saddened by 9/11 and the loss of some 3,000 souls, but I am equally saddened by the near 100,000 innocent civilians the US military has been killing (terrorism of another form?) in Iraq. What about the thousands of lives our "government " and our "boys" have destroyed in (shall I list but a handful of countries?): Iraq, Vietnam, Panama, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Nicaragua, Laos, etc... Look at the list, look at the facts.
And as Silvia so wonderfully put it : do you honestly think that Americans are the only victims of terrorism? That is what so disgusts me with the attitude of a number of my fellow Americans is that they think they are the only victims.
Jerseyboy - stay in Jersey, stay off of our Island!
Jerseyboy, keep your racist, narrow-minded , low IQ views off the board!
I am an American and was saddened by 9/11 and the loss of some 3,000 souls, but I am equally saddened by the near 100,000 innocent civilians the US military has been killing (terrorism of another form?) in Iraq. What about the thousands of lives our "government " and our "boys" have destroyed in (shall I list but a handful of countries?): Iraq, Vietnam, Panama, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Nicaragua, Laos, etc... Look at the list, look at the facts.
And as Silvia so wonderfully put it : do you honestly think that Americans are the only victims of terrorism? That is what so disgusts me with the attitude of a number of my fellow Americans is that they think they are the only victims.
Jerseyboy - stay in Jersey, stay off of our Island!
Morbyd
Moderator
The reality is, our government's advocacy of spreading democracy, even under the current neo-conservative regime, is pragmatic. We use it when it suits us (like when that WMD excuse went belly-up in Iraq) and we turn the other way when it doesn't (those countries Tycoon listed, alongside Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, etc. etc.).Tycoon said:
One of the greatest examples of our own hypocrisy is Chile. They elected a socialist leader in 1972 only for us to support the coups that led to 20 years of dictatorship under our good friend Pinochet. Indonesia under Suharto is another good example. Even Marcos in the Phillipines.
The forces of change that brought these men down occured despite US involvement, not because of it. We always jump on the bandwagon though... supporting those democratic movements after the fact.
I didn't see the US making a big deal about the massacre of demonstrators in Uzbekistan last month.... guess we need that military base too much.
Chile! 10 September 1973 -what a sad day! What a sad chapter in Chile's history that led to some 20 years of brutal dictatorship - all supported by the US. Let's not forget also Pinochet was good ol' Thatcher's buddy since he supported the UK against another brutal US backed military regime Argentina during the Falklands.
Now in hindsight, honestly, what were the Contras in Nicaragua if not Terrorists, financed by the US, illegally, like some countries are accused of financing Al Qaeda. The US government (Reagan, Ollie North and the like) called the Contras "Freedom Fighters". A number of people across the globe call Al Qaeda "Freedom Fighters". Different strokes for different folks.
I call neither Freedom Fighters, they're just brutal thugs out to destroy innocent lives backed by very powerful and deep pockets!
Oh, and btw, I leave for Ibiza tomorrow night for two and a half weeks!!!!!
Now in hindsight, honestly, what were the Contras in Nicaragua if not Terrorists, financed by the US, illegally, like some countries are accused of financing Al Qaeda. The US government (Reagan, Ollie North and the like) called the Contras "Freedom Fighters". A number of people across the globe call Al Qaeda "Freedom Fighters". Different strokes for different folks.
I call neither Freedom Fighters, they're just brutal thugs out to destroy innocent lives backed by very powerful and deep pockets!
Oh, and btw, I leave for Ibiza tomorrow night for two and a half weeks!!!!!
jerseyboy78
New Member
hahaha
thanks...but I agree with you...I'm not for the war, nor bush, nor any of it. My IQ is quite high, thanks. I just can't deal with people that run their mouths in other parts of the country or world. And again...you don't live here. I'm not for attacking anything...or blowing up and stupid mosques....but I'm not going to be a little sissy and just bash America. If we have another 9/11, it won't be pretty...and people will want action...it's human nature. We are going about it the wrong way in Iraq. When people start political threads on a music board...be prepared for emotional, irrational responses. I did it for effect....but personally, I don't care if they all died...why should I? Excuse me for not loving everything and everyone... I apologize if I offended anyone, but get over it. Cheers
Tycoon said:
thanks...but I agree with you...I'm not for the war, nor bush, nor any of it. My IQ is quite high, thanks. I just can't deal with people that run their mouths in other parts of the country or world. And again...you don't live here. I'm not for attacking anything...or blowing up and stupid mosques....but I'm not going to be a little sissy and just bash America. If we have another 9/11, it won't be pretty...and people will want action...it's human nature. We are going about it the wrong way in Iraq. When people start political threads on a music board...be prepared for emotional, irrational responses. I did it for effect....but personally, I don't care if they all died...why should I? Excuse me for not loving everything and everyone... I apologize if I offended anyone, but get over it. Cheers
jerseyboy78
New Member
Re: what?
it's the only one that sent the economy into a recession of this stature...
and I may not agree with what we've done in the past...but my lifestyle is great, and I want for nothing...so I think I'll side with the U.S. No other country pays my bills...
silvia said:jerseyboy78 said:
Yeah, New YOrk, the only spot in the world attacked by terrorism
it's the only one that sent the economy into a recession of this stature...
and I may not agree with what we've done in the past...but my lifestyle is great, and I want for nothing...so I think I'll side with the U.S. No other country pays my bills...
jerseyboy78
New Member
pseudo american
yeah, you and the one living in France...you're obvisouly extremely patriotic...
nothing wrong with living in france or spain, they are gorgeous, but it's easy to call yourself american and criticize people when you're living somewhere else.
silvia said:
yeah, you and the one living in France...you're obvisouly extremely patriotic...
nothing wrong with living in france or spain, they are gorgeous, but it's easy to call yourself american and criticize people when you're living somewhere else.
Morbyd
Moderator
Re: pseudo american
You've never had to defend everything that is good about our country to people who have never been there and have only our crappy media (movies, etc) and belligerent foreign policy to judge us by. You've never had to take the effort to register for overseas absentee ballots to vote or stayed up all night to watch election results.
If you think patriotism is being a flag waving idiot who thinks it's a good idea to nuke the holiest site of a religion followed by nearly a quarter of the world's population (including millions of AMERICANS), then your idea of patriotism is warped.
I have a quite high IQ too, in fact, extremely high, and I can recognize that the purest form of patriotism is being able to constructively criticize your country. Remember when your parent said they were spanking you because they loved you and if they didn't spank you it would mean they didn't love you? Ya, that's exactly it.
Living abroad makes you understand everything that is great about our nation and everything wrong with it. To be honest, it makes you a pretty darn good patriot.
Look, buddy... obviously you've never lived overseas. You weren't standing on Red Square on 9/11 frantically trying to track down your brother in NYC on a mobile phone running out of minutes. You didn't sit at a computer terminal for 3 hours trying to figure out what happened in DC where your parents lived. So you drive by the whole in the ground. Great. I've driven by it too.jerseyboy78 said:
You've never had to defend everything that is good about our country to people who have never been there and have only our crappy media (movies, etc) and belligerent foreign policy to judge us by. You've never had to take the effort to register for overseas absentee ballots to vote or stayed up all night to watch election results.
If you think patriotism is being a flag waving idiot who thinks it's a good idea to nuke the holiest site of a religion followed by nearly a quarter of the world's population (including millions of AMERICANS), then your idea of patriotism is warped.
I have a quite high IQ too, in fact, extremely high, and I can recognize that the purest form of patriotism is being able to constructively criticize your country. Remember when your parent said they were spanking you because they loved you and if they didn't spank you it would mean they didn't love you? Ya, that's exactly it.
Living abroad makes you understand everything that is great about our nation and everything wrong with it. To be honest, it makes you a pretty darn good patriot.
jerseyboy78
New Member
Re: pseudo american
I agree with a lot of what you said. I agree that blind patriotism is pathetic, and plentiful in the states. I agree that most people have no clue about the issues, and support issues or a way of government based either on family history of allegiance towards a party, or because it is popular amongst their peers and/or general demographic.
No, luckily, I didn't have any close family members die on 9.11, nor did I have any close friends die.
Personally, I am totally against religion in general, and I could write pages upon pages about it. I wouldn't mind living abroad, but I'd rather visit those places on vacation. I definitely agree that criticism is healthy, and I think there are a lot of things we need to fix. But....our people aren't starving, our people aren't being chopped up by machete carrying gangs of madmen, our people have the freedom to THRIVE like no other country on this planet....fact. Basically, since the dawn of man..it's been survival of the fittest. And like it or not...we are the fittest. Peace and love has never happened, nor will it ever happen. To think otherwise is unrealistic and inconsistent with the history of mankind. I look at every man as my equal; however if the brother of any man puts my brother in harms way, he shall feel my wrath. Americans, and muslims alike both adopt an "us or them" mentality. Whether it is right or wrong, we lump all muslims/islamists together in rage, and they do the same with us. It's human nature to do so. Not everyone has been afforded the education that we have had. They can't look at facts and think rationally as we can. Still, if something SERIOUS (nuke, etc.) happened here and Mecca was nuked...I can't say I'd care. Not many here would, brother. An eye for an eye. To me, if something like that did happen here, and you were against strong action, then you've lost your true American identity and sense of brotherhood. Anyway, cheers.
Morbyd said:
I agree with a lot of what you said. I agree that blind patriotism is pathetic, and plentiful in the states. I agree that most people have no clue about the issues, and support issues or a way of government based either on family history of allegiance towards a party, or because it is popular amongst their peers and/or general demographic.
No, luckily, I didn't have any close family members die on 9.11, nor did I have any close friends die.
Personally, I am totally against religion in general, and I could write pages upon pages about it. I wouldn't mind living abroad, but I'd rather visit those places on vacation. I definitely agree that criticism is healthy, and I think there are a lot of things we need to fix. But....our people aren't starving, our people aren't being chopped up by machete carrying gangs of madmen, our people have the freedom to THRIVE like no other country on this planet....fact. Basically, since the dawn of man..it's been survival of the fittest. And like it or not...we are the fittest. Peace and love has never happened, nor will it ever happen. To think otherwise is unrealistic and inconsistent with the history of mankind. I look at every man as my equal; however if the brother of any man puts my brother in harms way, he shall feel my wrath. Americans, and muslims alike both adopt an "us or them" mentality. Whether it is right or wrong, we lump all muslims/islamists together in rage, and they do the same with us. It's human nature to do so. Not everyone has been afforded the education that we have had. They can't look at facts and think rationally as we can. Still, if something SERIOUS (nuke, etc.) happened here and Mecca was nuked...I can't say I'd care. Not many here would, brother. An eye for an eye. To me, if something like that did happen here, and you were against strong action, then you've lost your true American identity and sense of brotherhood. Anyway, cheers.
Morbyd
Moderator
Re: pseudo american
If what you think America is now is, in reality, what America has become (because that's an America I've NEVER seen despite having lived most my life there), then it's not me that's lost my identity but America that has.
I'm not a big believer in religion either but that sentiment is irrational. There's a thing called respect for other cultures (somethat living abroad strengthens, by the way) and you have to recognize that a large percentage of muslims don't support terrorism. You also have to recognize that there is a large muslim population in the U.S.jerseyboy78 said:
Ya, revenge is great... and primative. You have no right to question my American identity for realizing that any action should be measured and targeted, not foolish and reactionary. You want to start a world war and disenfranchise a chunk of our own population? Go ahead... bomb Mecca. Hell, you could do your own part locally. Why don't you go deface a mosque in New Jersey or something? That's real American of you.jerseyboy78 said:
If what you think America is now is, in reality, what America has become (because that's an America I've NEVER seen despite having lived most my life there), then it's not me that's lost my identity but America that has.