Justice?
- Thread starter grego
- Start date
Grego- Yes I agree in the most part, mr de menzes looks nothing like the suspect and someone does need to be held accountable, and 7 rounds is excessive a sad, sad mistake which I doubt they (the police) will learn from, but as dan says they are doing a thankless & often impossible task which is to protect us, but they are human and therefore fallable!!
Johnny- in the 60's when your boys were tearing up vietnam, the pentagon came in for some stick, so the guy in charge, who used to work for Ford, introduced performance targets, based on body counts, the more the GI's killed the better they were doing.....obviously this still applies, even to guys on the same side
Johnny- in the 60's when your boys were tearing up vietnam, the pentagon came in for some stick, so the guy in charge, who used to work for Ford, introduced performance targets, based on body counts, the more the GI's killed the better they were doing.....obviously this still applies, even to guys on the same side
.Perhaps it's an unfair generalisation to say all coppers lie, but there were certainly a few porkies told in this case:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/story/0,,2203996,00.html
'One of Britain's most senior officers told the Guardian: "The Met should have pleaded guilty.'
I agree. Ian Blair should go, whichever person or persons positively identified de Menezes as a bomber and whichever person or persons who took it upon themselves to shoot should also.
The police are there to protect the public, and if they fail in that duty they should face the consequences.
i remember this one.
apart from the fact someone innocent died, the biggest disgrace here is that immediately after the incident the police tried to cover it up and even, as you say mick, pleaded not guilty at this trial.
the case against them was overwhelming, yet they still tried every trick in their dirty book in order to get away with it, including attempting to character assasinate de menezes - what, like that somehow means he deserves it!!
:x:x
the whole 'tension in that period' thing doesn't wash with me either. heightened tensions should have meant more stringent, robust and rapid actions, not the reverse.
the guy got on and off buses, was watched travelling around london for a long time and nobody thought to tackle him until a round of bullets was pumped into his head. what has that got to do with heightened tensions.
blair said he won't go cos this was extraordinary circumstance and not systemic failure. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! w*nka
apart from the fact someone innocent died, the biggest disgrace here is that immediately after the incident the police tried to cover it up and even, as you say mick, pleaded not guilty at this trial.
the case against them was overwhelming, yet they still tried every trick in their dirty book in order to get away with it, including attempting to character assasinate de menezes - what, like that somehow means he deserves it!!
:x:xthe whole 'tension in that period' thing doesn't wash with me either. heightened tensions should have meant more stringent, robust and rapid actions, not the reverse.
the guy got on and off buses, was watched travelling around london for a long time and nobody thought to tackle him until a round of bullets was pumped into his head. what has that got to do with heightened tensions.
blair said he won't go cos this was extraordinary circumstance and not systemic failure. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! w*nka
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agreed.
BUT, why cover it up? why put up a smokescreen? why try and smear de menezes in the trial when that has zero to do with the case? why plead 'not guilty'?
and secondly, if there were wannabe terrorists roaming the streets, why wait so long to confront the suspect and then only, in a location that would have caused much more harm?
The Met pleaded not guilty and forced a trial because they were charged under health and safety law which was never intended for this kind of purpose.
The police feared - and we will all find out later if they are right - that this would hamper their ability to conduct future anti-terrorist operations against suspected suicide bombers.
i remember this one.
apart from the fact someone innocent died, the biggest disgrace here is that immediately after the incident the police tried to cover it up and even, as you say mick, pleaded not guilty at this trial.
the case against them was overwhelming, yet they still tried every trick in their dirty book in order to get away with it, including attempting to character assasinate de menezes - what, like that somehow means he deserves it!!
the whole 'tension in that period' thing doesn't wash with me either. heightened tensions should have meant more stringent, robust and rapid actions, not the reverse.
the guy got on and off buses, was watched travelling around london for a long time and nobody thought to tackle him until a round of bullets was pumped into his head. what has that got to do with heightened tensions.
blair said he won't go cos this was extraordinary circumstance and not systemic failure. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! w*nka
Despite (though I still stand by) what i said earlier, I've come to completely agree with your stance on this one.
It's bloody shameful.
And then JUSt when you think you couldn't get more
and and 
about it, you hear the punishment:They've decided to FINE the POLICE.
I mean really ffs!
It's actually laughable now (because if I don't laugh, I'll cry!) (I actually did buy a t-shirt today in protest too!)
And then JUSt when you think you couldn't get more
They've decided to FINE the POLICE.
I mean really ffs!
(I actually did buy a t-shirt today in protest too!)
I literally fell off my seat on the tube this morning when I read that they've fined the Met £175,000
Words actually fail me on this one
Its down to piss poor PR, people trying to save their own jobs. no honour. we can learn a thing or 2 from the way the Japs conduct business.
if Ian Blair or whoever said, yes, it was my **** up, maybe a little public confidence would be restored.
Blame Thatcher
Its down to piss poor PR, people trying to save their own jobs. no honour. we can learn a thing or 2 from the way the Japs conduct business.
if Ian Blair or whoever said, yes, it was my **** up, maybe a little public confidence would be restored.
Blame Thatcher
PR??
it's to do with the arrogance and deceitful culture that is rife in senior police officials, which is such a paradox it's untrue as these are the people we entrust to protect and serve us. bla bla blaexactly, it was a corporate fcuk up, like the judge said and in any other organisation, the head's head would roll for this.
how ironic (like rain on your wedding day) that the law are outside the law.
this is similar to those private security firms swanning around Iraq killing off civilians (many children included) without the fear of recrimination.
Despite (though I still stand by) what i said earlier, I've come to completely agree with your stance on this one.
It's bloody shameful.
And then JUSt when you think you couldn't get more
They've decided to FINE the POLICE.
I mean really ffs!
(I actually did buy a t-shirt today in protest too!)
glad you've come to your senses lad.
PR??
i think you find that kinda save yr own bacon (like my pun?) culture is rife in most aspects of the UK.
there was a time any copper commanded a fair amount of respect. now look at em. most just got that look about em like they cant be arsed, and are scared to do anything in case they get hauled up in front of a judge for doing their job.
could well be down to govt meddling and meddling by the so called bleeding heart liberals who stick obstacles in the way of everything just cos "its not fair", and keep highlighting the cock ups. (eg. little witch from Liberty, Shami whatsherface - never see her on tv saying what a hard and wonderful job the police do generally - always on, moaning that theyve arrested the wrong bloke, like the rozzers just go and arrest people for the fun of it!)
tis all bollocks.
Morbyd
Moderator
I'd heard the verdict earlier, but had yet to read about the punishment.I literally fell off my seat on the tube this morning when I read that they've fined the Met £175,000
Words actually fail me on this one
Now that I have, I nearly fell off my seat here in the office!
Blackwater =grego said:
Padster
Active Member
It is indeed a shameful day for British justice. It started from the moment Mr De Menezes was shot dead when already apparently restrained, through the doctoring of the picture released by police (blemishes removed, skin-tone darkened and the image stretched to change the shape of his head/face) to make him look more like the terrorist suspect in question right on to the decision that as they couldn't be prosecuted for anything else then Health & Safety law would have to do. Farcical in the extreme. The British judicial system the best in the world? For some, maybe.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/story/0,,2207413,00.html
"[The Independent Police Complaints Commission report] said it could be significant that none of the 17 civilian witnesses in the tube carriage - who were not allowed to confer with other passengers before giving statements - heard officers shout: "Armed police." All eight police officers on the train recall hearing this being shouted, the report said."
"[The Independent Police Complaints Commission report] said it could be significant that none of the 17 civilian witnesses in the tube carriage - who were not allowed to confer with other passengers before giving statements - heard officers shout: "Armed police." All eight police officers on the train recall hearing this being shouted, the report said."
Buckley
Well-Known Member
I think we all agree that post this tragic incident, the Police have behaved badly and, in terms of comprehending public opinion, incredibly naively in attempting to cover up the where the mistakes are.
There's another site where an ex-copper (and he really clearly is from the extent of his knowledge) has been commenting on it all the way though the case. His main points are:
- The 7 shots in the head is not unreasonable. Mutiple rounds into the head is the textbook procedure for dealing with a suicide bomber. Certain instant death is the aim because it would still be possible for a bomber to detinate a bomb with partial brain functionality.
- The real problem was the identification of De Menezes as Osman, the actual suspect, coupled with the failure you stop him when he left the block of flats. In a Keystonesque move, the surveillance expert posted outside failed to id one way or the other because he went off for a p1ss at the vital moment! So De Menezes became the suspect, a potential suicide but was still allowed to get on a crowded bus, off that into a tube station and onto a tube.
The paragraph above is what the case was actually brought up on. The Police were charged with and found guilty of, endangering the public because they didn't apprehend the suspect earlier.
Has Blair gone yet? It has to be a question of if not when, surely??
There's another site where an ex-copper (and he really clearly is from the extent of his knowledge) has been commenting on it all the way though the case. His main points are:
- The 7 shots in the head is not unreasonable. Mutiple rounds into the head is the textbook procedure for dealing with a suicide bomber. Certain instant death is the aim because it would still be possible for a bomber to detinate a bomb with partial brain functionality.
- The real problem was the identification of De Menezes as Osman, the actual suspect, coupled with the failure you stop him when he left the block of flats. In a Keystonesque move, the surveillance expert posted outside failed to id one way or the other because he went off for a p1ss at the vital moment! So De Menezes became the suspect, a potential suicide but was still allowed to get on a crowded bus, off that into a tube station and onto a tube.
The paragraph above is what the case was actually brought up on. The Police were charged with and found guilty of, endangering the public because they didn't apprehend the suspect earlier.
Has Blair gone yet? It has to be a question of if not when, surely??
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Buckley
Well-Known Member
http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/story/0,,2207413,00.html
"[The Independent Police Complaints Commission report] said it could be significant that none of the 17 civilian witnesses in the tube carriage - who were not allowed to confer with other passengers before giving statements - heard officers shout: "Armed police." All eight police officers on the train recall hearing this being shouted, the report said."
You have to wonder don't you - the ex-copper I mention above is insistent that SO19 training is that with suspected suicide bombers you should go for instant certain death without warning because the warning will likely encourage the bomber to detonate.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/story/0,,2207413,00.html
"[The Independent Police Complaints Commission report] said it could be significant that none of the 17 civilian witnesses in the tube carriage - who were not allowed to confer with other passengers before giving statements - heard officers shout: "Armed police." All eight police officers on the train recall hearing this being shouted, the report said."
Yes, it looks like the cops have been caught cooking up the evidence. The shooter unit were given 36 hours in which to do it.