Just been reading this online
- Thread starter TM78
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kimajy
Well-Known Member
The most sensible paragraph in the whole article is this ... imho
"The nature of being high though is that it escapes logic and undermines reasoning. Which can be the fascination with it, but of course this becomes a tough one as soon as you reach the turning point, and fall, which causes great difficulty. It's a great skill to be able to hold the balance and know for oneself what is okay, and how much of it, and what should be avoided. But if someone is really hooked, these ‘wise' recommendations do not really help at all."
It does not require drugs to experience the very same issues - any form of escape or enjoyment can cause a "high". It is just that with drugs you don't have to look further than the nearest wrap so no imagination or effort needed (providing someone scored !). With booze it's even easier - the nearest bar or supermarket will do. So of course any pleasure-inducing activity unless perpetuated eventually turns to pain in one form or another and when you seek too much pleasure you wind up suffering a great deal of pain.
As far as society goes habitual drug use is more a reflection on laziness and lack of imagination brought about by everything being available too easily (from video games to cocaine, ket and cider). You can pretty much have whatever you want with very little effort now so the senses are numbed from over-stimulation and there is a constant craving in many people to "find something different". Or to rapidly escape the realities of a life they do not really want to be living when they are tied down, or else feel up to the expectations of others when in truth they are not (I'm talking people who "abuse" rather than people who "use" here btw).
It oughtn't to be a side-effect of a "sophisticated" society that drug use in its many forms becomes normalized. But it is. I'm not bashing drugs here I'm just saying that habitual use of anything for any of the reasons above isn't actually good for you long term. Or anyone around you. When faced with individual free choice it takes radical steps to break life patterns you enjoy but are slowly harming you or others, a very strong will and a great deal of practice and experience not to fall over helplessly along the way more often than you pull through and balance yourself afterwards.
Not everyone has (or is determined enough to develop) those skills in their character and they become victims of their own choices as a result. Well, that's life I'm afraid. But I do understand only too well the struggles of controlling and beating addiction and the solution almost always involves abstration from the triggering conditions followed by a long period of reconditioning without others trying to divert you off your path (especially those close to you). When you cannot escape the trigger conditions it can become nigh on impossible to stop. Re-integrating yourself on your own terms is something which comes with age and experience. Often the hard way.
Does dance music in a dark club create the conditions where drug use is more likely ? Of course it does ! The scene is highly conjucive and the music fits like a hand in a silk glove with the effects of certain drugs. But the trading floor of UBS is also the perfect complement for a bag of cocaine. However, you can spend time in either with or without - it's your choice. Too much time on the floors of either and in the end you're probably going to develop a habit or make a decision to steer clear... provided you survive that long. Bottom line is if you like the music and energy of a nightclub you'll like it with or without drugs... just as you'll like being on the trading floor for probably very similar reasons and if you can't be there and succeed without a line you probably oughtn't to be there at all.
The real question is whether giving people so much free choice and freely available stimulus has led to a culture of dependency. To that I do believe the answer is yes. When offered an "easy fix" few people will opt for a more difficult (or uncertain) one. So if a formula of dance music and drugs carries on making people feel they've had a great weekend then of course they'll carry on doing it. The problem comes when it no longer does the job and they can no longer see anything else which will. That's when the drugs (or drink) most likely spill over into the week as well as the weekend and what was a pretty harmless bit of fun can become a problem. I didn't say will. I said can. If the conditions or circumstances make it easy for that to happen there is a heightened risk and that's where the article touches on a valid point in a roundabout way.
What is needed is for people to help each other learn more about themselves and diversify their focus into striving for a balanced and varied life. That way they can make the best use of the free choices they have and not become slaves to anything. It's that message, surely, that would do more to change attitudes in society and make for a happier place for everyone (as well as building some better companions to spend ones' time with) than an assault on the availability of drugs in society ?
"The nature of being high though is that it escapes logic and undermines reasoning. Which can be the fascination with it, but of course this becomes a tough one as soon as you reach the turning point, and fall, which causes great difficulty. It's a great skill to be able to hold the balance and know for oneself what is okay, and how much of it, and what should be avoided. But if someone is really hooked, these ‘wise' recommendations do not really help at all."
It does not require drugs to experience the very same issues - any form of escape or enjoyment can cause a "high". It is just that with drugs you don't have to look further than the nearest wrap so no imagination or effort needed (providing someone scored !). With booze it's even easier - the nearest bar or supermarket will do. So of course any pleasure-inducing activity unless perpetuated eventually turns to pain in one form or another and when you seek too much pleasure you wind up suffering a great deal of pain.
As far as society goes habitual drug use is more a reflection on laziness and lack of imagination brought about by everything being available too easily (from video games to cocaine, ket and cider). You can pretty much have whatever you want with very little effort now so the senses are numbed from over-stimulation and there is a constant craving in many people to "find something different". Or to rapidly escape the realities of a life they do not really want to be living when they are tied down, or else feel up to the expectations of others when in truth they are not (I'm talking people who "abuse" rather than people who "use" here btw).
It oughtn't to be a side-effect of a "sophisticated" society that drug use in its many forms becomes normalized. But it is. I'm not bashing drugs here I'm just saying that habitual use of anything for any of the reasons above isn't actually good for you long term. Or anyone around you. When faced with individual free choice it takes radical steps to break life patterns you enjoy but are slowly harming you or others, a very strong will and a great deal of practice and experience not to fall over helplessly along the way more often than you pull through and balance yourself afterwards.
Not everyone has (or is determined enough to develop) those skills in their character and they become victims of their own choices as a result. Well, that's life I'm afraid. But I do understand only too well the struggles of controlling and beating addiction and the solution almost always involves abstration from the triggering conditions followed by a long period of reconditioning without others trying to divert you off your path (especially those close to you). When you cannot escape the trigger conditions it can become nigh on impossible to stop. Re-integrating yourself on your own terms is something which comes with age and experience. Often the hard way.
Does dance music in a dark club create the conditions where drug use is more likely ? Of course it does ! The scene is highly conjucive and the music fits like a hand in a silk glove with the effects of certain drugs. But the trading floor of UBS is also the perfect complement for a bag of cocaine. However, you can spend time in either with or without - it's your choice. Too much time on the floors of either and in the end you're probably going to develop a habit or make a decision to steer clear... provided you survive that long. Bottom line is if you like the music and energy of a nightclub you'll like it with or without drugs... just as you'll like being on the trading floor for probably very similar reasons and if you can't be there and succeed without a line you probably oughtn't to be there at all.
The real question is whether giving people so much free choice and freely available stimulus has led to a culture of dependency. To that I do believe the answer is yes. When offered an "easy fix" few people will opt for a more difficult (or uncertain) one. So if a formula of dance music and drugs carries on making people feel they've had a great weekend then of course they'll carry on doing it. The problem comes when it no longer does the job and they can no longer see anything else which will. That's when the drugs (or drink) most likely spill over into the week as well as the weekend and what was a pretty harmless bit of fun can become a problem. I didn't say will. I said can. If the conditions or circumstances make it easy for that to happen there is a heightened risk and that's where the article touches on a valid point in a roundabout way.
What is needed is for people to help each other learn more about themselves and diversify their focus into striving for a balanced and varied life. That way they can make the best use of the free choices they have and not become slaves to anything. It's that message, surely, that would do more to change attitudes in society and make for a happier place for everyone (as well as building some better companions to spend ones' time with) than an assault on the availability of drugs in society ?
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kimajy...you mention escape quite a bit...i've never really bought that 'escape' reasoning for people taking recreational / up drugs in clubs ...(nb: i dont include ket as an up drug)....in a club your not really escaping anywhere, your stuck in a dark room, sweating/lights going off/music booming and people mumbling nonsence too you...you aint in a bedsit taking smack and nodding off or doing salvia/lsd/mushooms watching the pink floyd /wizard of oz soundclash eating cookies,
i take mdma/e/mephadrone in clubs whilst listening to 'dance' music because for me, it makes the music go somewhere it might not usually go (thats not to say i take it everytime i go clubbing, as i dont, nor do i push the intake levels..i know my tolerances and know the line..i've been taking it for near on 20yrs)..from my experience i do see quite a lot of youngsters these days out at (particularly house/deep house nights) taking a lot of ket..it seems very fashionable for therm to take loads of it, and be wandering about like zombies...the music, as the article i'd linked too suggests, suits them/fits that 'scene'...its very slow/languid..and for those not doing drugs its very boring!!....see some of the live sets from people like jamie jones/soul clap/art department/ no regular play/thug****er etc etc...i cant help think this is kids trying to recreate a kind of paradise garage/studio 54 /club kids scene for themselves but rather than pills/coke..its ket...i've no doubt some of them will burn out and suffer real health issues from their ket use (the liver damage/incontinence)
going back to mdma/ecstasy..i've long held the view (and i dont drink alcohol so perhaps i'm biased) that it far more safe , for the individual (if educated on tis use) and in a crowd environment more enjoyable all round than booze, and should be legal, manufactured and available in the uk, with the quality regulated and guaranteed (we have currently a situation in glasgow where people were falling ill due to 'e' being sold which was actually pills filled with the latest batch of research chemicals)..as usual politicians are scared to address the public health implications of the continued criminalisation of young people taking drugs so nothing gets done.....that to me is the sad thing.
i take mdma/e/mephadrone in clubs whilst listening to 'dance' music because for me, it makes the music go somewhere it might not usually go (thats not to say i take it everytime i go clubbing, as i dont, nor do i push the intake levels..i know my tolerances and know the line..i've been taking it for near on 20yrs)..from my experience i do see quite a lot of youngsters these days out at (particularly house/deep house nights) taking a lot of ket..it seems very fashionable for therm to take loads of it, and be wandering about like zombies...the music, as the article i'd linked too suggests, suits them/fits that 'scene'...its very slow/languid..and for those not doing drugs its very boring!!....see some of the live sets from people like jamie jones/soul clap/art department/ no regular play/thug****er etc etc...i cant help think this is kids trying to recreate a kind of paradise garage/studio 54 /club kids scene for themselves but rather than pills/coke..its ket...i've no doubt some of them will burn out and suffer real health issues from their ket use (the liver damage/incontinence)
going back to mdma/ecstasy..i've long held the view (and i dont drink alcohol so perhaps i'm biased) that it far more safe , for the individual (if educated on tis use) and in a crowd environment more enjoyable all round than booze, and should be legal, manufactured and available in the uk, with the quality regulated and guaranteed (we have currently a situation in glasgow where people were falling ill due to 'e' being sold which was actually pills filled with the latest batch of research chemicals)..as usual politicians are scared to address the public health implications of the continued criminalisation of young people taking drugs so nothing gets done.....that to me is the sad thing.
I think this is a reasonable article - but nothing new at all.
I remember when generation e ended and the gays began embracing ket in the mid 90s - I had strong opinions on it then.
It also changed music from hands in the air vocal euphoria to the twisted tribal stuff that was associated with people like Danny Tenaglia at the time.
Despite the positives of MDMA usage (outside of recreational use there are many) I DO think it's a means to escape - purely because Western indoctrination is a very unhealthy thing. It's not surprising that people take drugs to connect when so much emphasis is placed on competition and hierarchy.
I remember when generation e ended and the gays began embracing ket in the mid 90s - I had strong opinions on it then.
It also changed music from hands in the air vocal euphoria to the twisted tribal stuff that was associated with people like Danny Tenaglia at the time.
Despite the positives of MDMA usage (outside of recreational use there are many) I DO think it's a means to escape - purely because Western indoctrination is a very unhealthy thing. It's not surprising that people take drugs to connect when so much emphasis is placed on competition and hierarchy.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
Should I read the original article at work? I think MDMA and dance music go particularly well together. Synergy is the word. 
I'm not sure one would be where it is today without the other. Sadly, the more you do MDMA, the more you need to get high (while never really recapturing the magic of the first few times) and the more unwanted side effects you get. Best kept for special occasions, though it is tempting to do it any time you hit a proper club.
Anyway, getting off your tits and dancing is hardly a new thing. Tribal cultures often group bond over psychoactive drugs. I don't think drugs are so much an escape as an intrinsic part of human life. Taking the right sort of drugs is far less passive escape than watching X-Factor or whatever.
I'm not sure one would be where it is today without the other. Sadly, the more you do MDMA, the more you need to get high (while never really recapturing the magic of the first few times) and the more unwanted side effects you get. Best kept for special occasions, though it is tempting to do it any time you hit a proper club.Anyway, getting off your tits and dancing is hardly a new thing. Tribal cultures often group bond over psychoactive drugs. I don't think drugs are so much an escape as an intrinsic part of human life. Taking the right sort of drugs is far less passive escape than watching X-Factor or whatever.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
It's mental escape from the world outside. So is sitting in a cinema watching Skyfall. Hard to see how it isn't.
You escape the confines and limitations of your brain wiring. You can do a similar thing without the drug once your brain is accustomed to the pathways. Humans use very little of their brain capacity and spend little time (on the whole) developing their wider sensory functionality. It's easier to bosh a pill.
Agree with all this.
I think MDMA and dance music go particularly well together. Synergy is the word.
Anyway, getting off your tits and dancing is hardly a new thing. Tribal cultures often group bond over psychoactive drugs. I don't think drugs are so much an escape as an intrinsic part of human life. Taking the right sort of drugs is far less passive escape than watching X-Factor or whatever.
Again, agree with all this and in particular with the last para. You will note I have never criticized drug use in the right circumstances. However, in tribal cultures it is strictly controlled and often has a 'religious' or theraputic aim. Running amok round the jungle off your face whenever you feel like it is likely to get you outcast ! (Unless you're the medicine man or high priest in which case you'd likely have exceptions made for you
)An interesting view. Agree strongly on X-factor etc - and I myself struggle with being in life when constant distractions like Faecesbook present themselves.
However, ancient practices like the Afro Brazilian Trance Dance, are miiiiiles away from modern dance culture.
The trance dance is about being fully conscious and they don't/didn't combine ceremonies with psycho active drugs.
Plus they are not used recreationally - they are used to go on really harsh journeys with = not particularly fun.
Ayahuasca/San Pedro ceremonies are held in a very different way.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
"God is a DJ" Is it not possible that people who attend raves/clubs, who do MDMA, can have close to a 'religious' experience? I'm thinking particularly the first few times, when you feel 'the magic'. My first time I didn't realise I was up until I left the club and, rather than monginess (?), there was a beautiful sense of clarity just looking at the night sky. That weekend undoubtedly cemented what is probably my best friendship and I remember a week long afterglow. Done right, MDMA can dissolve boundaries, egos, create a sense of togetherness and openness, a oneness with your surroundings.
An interesting view. Agree strongly on X-factor etc - and I myself struggle with being in life when constant distractions like Faecesbook present themselves.
However, ancient practices like the Afro Brazilian Trance Dance, are miiiiiles away from modern dance culture.
The trance dance is about being fully conscious and they don't/didn't combine ceremonies with psycho active drugs.
Plus they are not used recreationally - they are used to go on really harsh journeys with = not particularly fun.
Ayahuasca/San Pedro ceremonies are held in a very different way.
I'm sure some tribes use/used psychoactive plants (we're going to include basic fermened fruit drinks here!) for something more celebratory, the experience depending in part on the plants that are/would have been available to different tribes? I'm reading Food of the Gods at the moment and there are descriptions of ceremonies, large groups of people sitting round fires tripping their nuts off... But, aye, straight up hallucinogenic drugs are more unpredictable than MDMA: could take you to heaven or hell. Weirdly, I've found mushrooms (so possibly other hallucinogens?) don't go with western music at all (never mind television!), can make it seem time-stretched, like a chewed cassette. Maybe better with just percusssion, no melody or just natural sounds? Maybe a society that allows hallucinogenic drugs can be more at one with nature?
kimajy
Well-Known Member
It's an enlightener that is for sure and for people who would otherwise fail to achieve said enlightenment I don't actually think it's a bad thing. However, I personally do not believe that once the path has been demonstrated there is on ongoing need for it. If you catch my drift.
Having seen the effects of boundaries being dissolved and egos being sublimated to togetherness and openness the answer to many things has been given to you. To me, the right goal is to embrace those lessons and take them with you - drug or no drug. It is the person who chooses how to view the world and conduct themselves around others and a better goal is for this to be a matter of free will, not merely something which is triggered in response to an artificial stimulus and needs that stimulus to trigger it.
If people simply substitute MDMA for some other stimulus and "react" to that then they are demonstrating no control over their unstimulated perceptions. Especially in groups. Dare I say it, a bit like a flock of sheep. And the likelihood is that they have in fact learned very little.
The potential beneficial aspects of drugs should not be confined to the "moment" as that requires an on-going dependency to sustain same. Surely if the benefits and insights are instead "banked" in the vault of human experience and embraced as part of a better way of being with others and oneself then that is a finer outcome ?
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
You might as well ask 'why repeat any experience?' Part of the MDMA experience is surely what happens in the moment - the way it intensifies music and light, that feeling of coming up, not just what you learn from it. Indeed, perhaps for many people, learning anything while on it is their last intention. It's a strange drug, though. As I said, do it too often and the side effects (and I'm just talking while 'up') can start to outweigh the benefits. Once you're used to it, it can even become tedious if done where there's not enough external stimulation. (On the other hand, I found mephedrone never got boring, but that's probably because it works on dopamine.) I'd use this to argue that MDMA is quite a healthy drug, in that most users have a honeymoon period where they cain it, then either use it with less and less frequency or stop altogether. Can't really say the same for booze, tobacco... and if meph weren't banned and so hard to get hold of it, I'd probably still be doing that most weekends too.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Perhaps but as you say that's only part and it's the self-indulgent part - people enjoying the feeling off taking drugs else many likely wouldn't bother. Just as others enjoy a calming cigarette or getting drunk. But pleasure comes in many forms which don't require artificial chemical stimulation too and these are the 'natural' highs which I personally find far more satisfying these days. The learning, I think, comes after being on things more than whilst people are on them - once they have had a chance to reflect - if they bother to take the time to.
As far as the learning objective is concerned that's a personal thing. I suspect for many people it's simply a case of "bosh pills, get mashed, start grindstone again Monday". Job done. That's a shame to be honest .. imho ... since many of the valuable insights there to be had are simply missed completely. Pretty much what I was driving at earlier. As far as saying I may as well ask why repeat any experience, I disagree on that. I'm not suggesting trying things once and once only or anything of the kind. What I am driving at is weekly / fortnightly usage over a long period of time of any substance is basically habit / addiction to one degree or another. That habitual use of mood-altering substances as a way of life is part of the 'natural human condition' or 'normal order' is not something my intellectual honesty will permit me to agree with, unfortunately ! It is something which people may want to do for various reasons but that is elective and in no way "natural", nor could / (dare I say should) it be viewed as an appropriate benchmark "norm". That goes for tobacco and alcohol too.
For many people there comes a point where they simply wish to be able to stand on their own two feet without needing to obtain chemical substances of one form or another in a way that makes them something they feel they would be having to "survive" without or wouldn't be happy without. If that point comes, then you are dependent. Pure and simple. If you are comfortable with dependency that's fine. If (as I do) you hate dependency and crave self-sufficiency then it matters not what the subject is you will end up kicking against it, however much you love it. It can happen in personal relationships just as easily. But in the end it's all down to the individual and what makes them tick.
As far as the learning objective is concerned that's a personal thing. I suspect for many people it's simply a case of "bosh pills, get mashed, start grindstone again Monday". Job done. That's a shame to be honest .. imho ... since many of the valuable insights there to be had are simply missed completely. Pretty much what I was driving at earlier. As far as saying I may as well ask why repeat any experience, I disagree on that. I'm not suggesting trying things once and once only or anything of the kind. What I am driving at is weekly / fortnightly usage over a long period of time of any substance is basically habit / addiction to one degree or another. That habitual use of mood-altering substances as a way of life is part of the 'natural human condition' or 'normal order' is not something my intellectual honesty will permit me to agree with, unfortunately ! It is something which people may want to do for various reasons but that is elective and in no way "natural", nor could / (dare I say should) it be viewed as an appropriate benchmark "norm". That goes for tobacco and alcohol too.
For many people there comes a point where they simply wish to be able to stand on their own two feet without needing to obtain chemical substances of one form or another in a way that makes them something they feel they would be having to "survive" without or wouldn't be happy without. If that point comes, then you are dependent. Pure and simple. If you are comfortable with dependency that's fine. If (as I do) you hate dependency and crave self-sufficiency then it matters not what the subject is you will end up kicking against it, however much you love it. It can happen in personal relationships just as easily. But in the end it's all down to the individual and what makes them tick.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what the difference is between taking drugs and other 'frivolous' activities that allow us to escape the daily grind, which could include watching TV, going to a football match, playing video games or even sober clubbing. I have a feeling there's a sort of religious/work ethic at play - if you're going to obtain pleasure, you should earn it! Taking drugs is seen as a short cut to pleasure and thus bad. As much as you do get a buzz from exercise, for example, let's be clear that it's not going to match the best drug high you've had. These are states that I don't believe can be achieved naturally. (Some folk say they can, but until someone produces a scan of a meditating brain doing the same thing a brain does on MDMA, LSD or meph, I'll remain sceptical.)
I have my drug habits well under control now. MDMA I'll only do on big club nights and those are very rare these days. In fact, I could almost imagine me not touching the stuff until I hit a certain island next summer. Meph I'd probably do occasionally if I could find it, but try and leave it to once a month rather than slipping back into a weekly habit. Booze I only do at weekends and on holidays and I'm trying (and managing) to cut back, a decision mainly due to the calories. Who defines what a natural usage pattern is for any drug? Is it wrong to drink once a week? Why should we criticise the habit of someone who has a few drinks every Friday and not the person who scoffs a cream cake every Thursday or the person who watches their team play every weekend? Humans are creatures of habit and we do know the relationship between humans and drugs goes way back.
I think a lot of doing drugs to any sort of excess is to do with going to where people take drugs (inc. alcohol). I can't really imagine going to a pub or club and being sober; as much to do with wasted people being annoying when you're sober as not having the confidence!
I have my drug habits well under control now. MDMA I'll only do on big club nights and those are very rare these days. In fact, I could almost imagine me not touching the stuff until I hit a certain island next summer. Meph I'd probably do occasionally if I could find it, but try and leave it to once a month rather than slipping back into a weekly habit. Booze I only do at weekends and on holidays and I'm trying (and managing) to cut back, a decision mainly due to the calories. Who defines what a natural usage pattern is for any drug? Is it wrong to drink once a week? Why should we criticise the habit of someone who has a few drinks every Friday and not the person who scoffs a cream cake every Thursday or the person who watches their team play every weekend? Humans are creatures of habit and we do know the relationship between humans and drugs goes way back.
I think a lot of doing drugs to any sort of excess is to do with going to where people take drugs (inc. alcohol). I can't really imagine going to a pub or club and being sober; as much to do with wasted people being annoying when you're sober as not having the confidence!
kimajy
Well-Known Member
There's quite a big difference, in many ways ! None of the above involve artificial intoxication of the body except the first. Nowhere above does it imply any of the latter examples cannot be harmful especially if done to excess. The convo was focused on drugs per se, not on other activities.
Is the first a scary thought
There is no religious or work ethic at play at all. Just plain simple honesty and the fact that there can be no light without dark, no pleasure without pain (in some form, eventually). As regards your disbelief about highs from natural activity, drug highs do not even come close. Any of them. With regard to meditation and similar transcendental pursuits the pathways are different but equally powerful. LSD is an oddity .. flashbacks are very common and that is because the relevant pathways have been opened by its use and are occasionally reactivated without conscious effort. I'm pretty sure most people would agree it is not something to be trifled with.Who is criticizing anybody. There is a big difference between dishing out criticism and highlighting the nature of dependency, something which many people choose to perceive in a way which suits their own choices. I am not making personal or pointed comments merely stating what I believe to be a reasoned and rational overview, which some may agree with and others will not. You can find arguments to justify pretty much any actions or choices if you have a mind to. However, the only person you'll be arguing with is yourself and each person is perfectly at liberty to make their own choices and form their own views about those choices.
Humans are indeed creatures of habit. There are good habits and not so good habits. A continual reappraisal of same is generally a healthy and productive endeavour. The line between habit and dependency is very fine - one of the reasons I don't play video games. I'm pretty sure that a "habit" of that nature could in the right circumstances easily turn into a dependency and I can happily live without the video games.
I've been to lots of pubs sober and drunk and don't much like them in either state. Similarly been to loads of clubs both sober and off my proverbial and with the right music and crowd, love them in either state. I don't find wasted people annoying when I'm sober if I'm clubbing, provided they are enjoying themselves, respectful of me and others and keeping the dancefloor heaving. Zombies, bargers and violence are things which I don't go for whether wasted or sober - often more so when wasted than sober. If you spend a lot of time talking on sofas and at the bar then the conversational aspects might gain more prominence and trying to have a sensible conversation sober with a wasted person is, as we all know, pretty futile ! But I don't go clubbing first and foremost to talk, because I like to dance. A lot. If I didn't like to dance (to dance music ... ) I wouldn't have any desire to go to clubs.
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Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
Well, interestingly, in 'Food of the Gods', Terence McKenna includes such things as sugar and television as drugs... I'm continually amazed that some people criticise others for taking drugs when they spend so much time sitting on their butts in front of the TV. Life's all about balance. A few glasses of wine won't have you suffering the next day and I'd argue one dose of MDMA is unlikely to either. In fact, you probably suffer more for being up all night than you do for consuming the mandy.
'Highs' basically boil down to the brain being flooded with chemicals like seratonin and dopamine. Is there any concrete evidence that these states can be replicated via meditation?
'Highs' basically boil down to the brain being flooded with chemicals like seratonin and dopamine. Is there any concrete evidence that these states can be replicated via meditation?
out of interest, what drugs did you used to take kimajy? what drugs do you take now?
what made you stop the 'bad' drugs and when was the last time you took them?
(just out of interest...as i know a lot of people who no longer take pills as basically they are of the mind that they are all **** / low quality compared to 'back in the day'..
what made you stop the 'bad' drugs and when was the last time you took them?
(just out of interest...as i know a lot of people who no longer take pills as basically they are of the mind that they are all **** / low quality compared to 'back in the day'..
Buckley
Well-Known Member
BITD! Barbie!Morbyd! Leave it!!!
They must be getting them from dodgy dealers. Most pills are better than they ever were...theres a Pill Renaissance happening at present, mainly due to their low cost and length of the experience a pill can deliver over other drugs.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
i agree, there is a nostalgic refusal i think by some people to believe that the quality is better / equal to when it 'all started'
lolwhen your getting over 200mg (certified by testing in holland)...im very sceptical that the pills 'back in the day' were really carrying higher dosages.
Jack87
Member
Pills here have definitely been better the last couple of years. The ones I've seen about have been going for £8 or £10, but you really only need one unless you're planning on completely losing your mind. You don't hear of people buying pills at £2 or £3 and eating them like smarties any more.