If Kids
- Thread starter russ
- Start date
I often think the answer to that is 'yes' but hip hop fans would come down on me like a tonne of bricks.
Kids say they can identify with him if they live in a 'ghetto' - but this isn't America so I never understood that one.
I'm a great believer that you create your own reality by where you choose to direct your thoughts - and in truth, the kids LOVE guns! They think gang warfare is sexy because power is seductive and multi millionaires in Hollywood are capitalising on it.
But maybe that's me being out of touch - I dunno.
Kids say they can identify with him if they live in a 'ghetto' - but this isn't America so I never understood that one.
I'm a great believer that you create your own reality by where you choose to direct your thoughts - and in truth, the kids LOVE guns! They think gang warfare is sexy because power is seductive and multi millionaires in Hollywood are capitalising on it.
But maybe that's me being out of touch - I dunno.
I prefer block paty hip hop thesedays but i used to listen to gangster Rap all the time, Ice T, NWA, Ice Cube,etc,etc all about killing,etc and i never went around shooting anyone, blaming Hip Hop music is utterly riducalous and totally without any substance,it's just the society we live in today unfortunately,although certain films may have had an impact in some shotings over the years then again the person who done it could not have been in the right frame of mind anwyay.
(admittedly a **** one based on getting rich and looking hard cos you got the greens man.)I wish it were as simple as that although you do have to strongly consider the link between rap music and gun violence - what other scene glamourises the use of firearms against you "enemies" - none as far as Im aware
Therefore if there was no form of social commentary - which many people beleive rap to be - around the use of guns - Surely Kids would have limited reference point with which to base their actions on
Unfortunately though in socially deprived areas gang mentalities have existed long before rap music so really its more down to the fact that there seems to be a fringe of society - a real disaffected generation of youth who beleive the only way they can create some form of identity and belonging is by joining a gang - whether by peer pressure or own choice - and a part of society in which the value of life is much lower than for the majority of people.
Unfortunately the gang mentality and peer pressure seems to make these kids so bold and act in a way that they would never dare to do in one on one situation - depressing!
I do work with youth groups a few times a month and some of the kids outlooks are so bleak that without sounding harsh there seems no hope.
I was walking in Shoreditch the other day and some kids - no more than 11 or 12 were walking along the street yanking at door handles of cars. I told them to stop in as nice as way possible and was given a pretty clear "F*ck you"
I guess internationally if you look at countries where gang mentalities exist amongst the youth - USA, UK, Brazil for e.g. - its often where start contrasts exist between the rich and poor - living side by side in most cases - really think thats the source of the general porblem
Sorry about the long post - just something I think about a lot!
Therefore if there was no form of social commentary - which many people beleive rap to be - around the use of guns - Surely Kids would have limited reference point with which to base their actions on
Unfortunately though in socially deprived areas gang mentalities have existed long before rap music so really its more down to the fact that there seems to be a fringe of society - a real disaffected generation of youth who beleive the only way they can create some form of identity and belonging is by joining a gang - whether by peer pressure or own choice - and a part of society in which the value of life is much lower than for the majority of people.
Unfortunately the gang mentality and peer pressure seems to make these kids so bold and act in a way that they would never dare to do in one on one situation - depressing!
I do work with youth groups a few times a month and some of the kids outlooks are so bleak that without sounding harsh there seems no hope.
I was walking in Shoreditch the other day and some kids - no more than 11 or 12 were walking along the street yanking at door handles of cars. I told them to stop in as nice as way possible and was given a pretty clear "F*ck you"
I guess internationally if you look at countries where gang mentalities exist amongst the youth - USA, UK, Brazil for e.g. - its often where start contrasts exist between the rich and poor - living side by side in most cases - really think thats the source of the general porblem
Sorry about the long post - just something I think about a lot!
agentundercover
Active Member
Categorically no. Not that I can prove it.
But there are so so many different influences.
live near the centre of gangchester, so its something we get down the road on a semi regular basis.
I think a lack of role models has a massive impact upon it. For example Mosside has an organisation 'Mothers Against Guns'. Amazing people given the circumstances the group is formed in (most have lost children). You never see the fathers though standing up and saying anything. The only males seem to be the police or the gangsters.
Also, everyone knows who the individuals are within the 'communities'. I read a letter in the Man News that described the community as the last liberal sacred cow. Was interesting, not my instinct to think along those lines but it was a good point. The police get a load of flak for not engaging with them, however everytime the brothers, friends etc keep quiet they are complicit. No, its not easy, but there are witness protection schemes. The 'gangs' are not as I remember from Liverpool in the mid nineties, i.e Men fighting over large sums of money & drugs (simplification I know) who will track you down - it's kids over 10er deals & less.
On another tack some of the built environment these people have to live in breeds resentment. Anyone who knows the Alexendra Park in Mosside will know what I mean. Caged liked rabbits.
And who puts the guns on the streets?
And finally, legalise drugs & the main cash flow dissapears!
But there are so so many different influences.
live near the centre of gangchester, so its something we get down the road on a semi regular basis.
I think a lack of role models has a massive impact upon it. For example Mosside has an organisation 'Mothers Against Guns'. Amazing people given the circumstances the group is formed in (most have lost children). You never see the fathers though standing up and saying anything. The only males seem to be the police or the gangsters.
Also, everyone knows who the individuals are within the 'communities'. I read a letter in the Man News that described the community as the last liberal sacred cow. Was interesting, not my instinct to think along those lines but it was a good point. The police get a load of flak for not engaging with them, however everytime the brothers, friends etc keep quiet they are complicit. No, its not easy, but there are witness protection schemes. The 'gangs' are not as I remember from Liverpool in the mid nineties, i.e Men fighting over large sums of money & drugs (simplification I know) who will track you down - it's kids over 10er deals & less.
On another tack some of the built environment these people have to live in breeds resentment. Anyone who knows the Alexendra Park in Mosside will know what I mean. Caged liked rabbits.
And who puts the guns on the streets?
And finally, legalise drugs & the main cash flow dissapears!
Children have lost their identity within society, they have no respect and have no place. If the point of their lives is not education, or work, they need one. They need people to notice them, people to think they are something. Wandering around with a blade and shooting people is one way to do this. The way culture is moving this is more apparent as it is less of a big deal to carry a blade ( have heard kids openly talking about having a "shank" on a train before ). The only way Hip Hop affects these kids is by maybe putting their tolerance and sensitivity to such things down a little thus making them think it is more acceptable.
I would hate to be a kid now, Britain is horrible, every day around 10-50 kids are stabbed or wounded by other children. Mental. Gangs and that have always been about, only difference it's changed from Queensbury rules, to no rules.
As Johnny says though, can't blame Hip Hop the NWA generation, in England anyway, didn't do this. If they want to emulate their idols why not just buy a size bigger jeans and turn the cap the wrong way like we used to !!!!
I would hate to be a kid now, Britain is horrible, every day around 10-50 kids are stabbed or wounded by other children. Mental. Gangs and that have always been about, only difference it's changed from Queensbury rules, to no rules.
As Johnny says though, can't blame Hip Hop the NWA generation, in England anyway, didn't do this. If they want to emulate their idols why not just buy a size bigger jeans and turn the cap the wrong way like we used to !!!!
Morbyd
Moderator
was listening to a labour councillor to Croxteth on Radio 5 yesterday blaming Thatcher for the shooting...
- she arrived at that conclusion based on Thatch creating the "selfish society" - when told by Nicky Campbell that the gap between rich and poor is wider than before she couldnt reply with anything resembling a decent answer.was listening to a labour councillor to Croxteth on Radio 5 yesterday blaming Thatcher for the shooting...
She gets blamed for everything!
My Dad says Liverpools problems were started by the last Labour Gov and not the old Maggie though.
The scary thing is in all this is that the area that it happened isn't the rough getto Croxteth the press are making out, it's a private, nice estate on built within Croxteth country park, not quite a getto.
She gets blamed for everything!
My Dad says Liverpools problems were started by the last Labour Gov and not the old Maggie though.
The scary thing is in all this is that the area that it happened isn't the rough getto Croxteth the press are making out, it's a private, nice estate on built within Croxteth country park, not quite a getto.
see what happens! - snatch a childs milk and they turn into cold blooded killers.
nice bits are nearly always next to not so nice bits. whole country's going to the dogs. and i may well **** off back to where i came from soon enough!
Very helpful discription of the killer too, a boy aged 13-15 wearing a tracksuit and white trainers.... er that narrows it down in Liverpool then
Very helpful discription of the killer too, a boy aged 13-15 wearing a tracksuit and white trainers.... er that narrows it down in Liverpool then
well i hope they catch the bastard.
cant imagine many parents letting their kids out to play anymore.
Very helpful discription of the killer too, a boy aged 13-15 wearing a tracksuit and white trainers.... er that narrows it down in Liverpool then
agentundercover
Active Member
Yep - if they get caught at 17 for putting a cap in someones a$$ , its out by 21 for good behavior.
The area where it happened is not that bad. In comparison to many other places.
I thought it was important that they showed so much of the interview with the parents on the TV. Made the point that the victims were evidently not scum, came from a 'decent' home & were articulate in expressing their grief.
I.e daily mail readers, and this place I hear of called 'middle england', take responsibility for the society you have helped create or it could be little rupert next.
The area where it happened is not that bad. In comparison to many other places.
I thought it was important that they showed so much of the interview with the parents on the TV. Made the point that the victims were evidently not scum, came from a 'decent' home & were articulate in expressing their grief.
I.e daily mail readers, and this place I hear of called 'middle england', take responsibility for the society you have helped create or it could be little rupert next.