From now on I boycot the dutch and the french

NOPE...

they voted AGAINST an easy way out for bored EU-members
they voted AGAINST a reform of the justice system where everybody is guilty until proven innocence
they voted AGAINST giving up a vetoright (while being one of the founding fathers of the EU and paying relative the most money)
they voted AGAINST a half baked law which doesnt bring the clarety it -falsely- promised

I never vote but today I stood shoulder to shoulder with the real europeans and voted .....you'd guess it by now....AGAINST the horrible dragon called...uhm... what was the dragons name?
 
They voted aginst the EU - (basic?) law

They voted because they blaim the EU for losing their jobs, but they forget that the euro and th eu gave them also jobs. But the sad thruth will be that their vote has a huge impact on the economy and could be the push to bring the european economy in a recession.

Silvia you have to be honest that the EU was a huge help in Spain to achieve the economic welfare you have and to be honest the growth of the spanish economy was beneficial for our economy (Belgium and The Netherlands). So why not support our neighbours in Poland?
 
wimpers said:
Silvia you have to be honest that the EU was a huge help in Spain to achieve the economic welfare you have and to be honest the growth of the spanish economy was beneficial for our economy (Belgium and The Netherlands). So why not support our neighbours in Poland?
Click to expand...

Wimpers, have you read the document?
The referendum was about the constitution, not about Poland or other things. And to be honest, that wouldn't hapen if they asked people about the EURO.

And do you think that cos the UE helped lots spain in the past we have to say yes to everything, including such a capitalist document that is forgoting all the basic rights? :roll:
 
silvia said:
Wimpers, have you read the document?
The referendum was about the constitution, not about Poland or other things. And to be honest, that wouldn't hapen if they asked people about the EURO.
Click to expand...

No i haven't, but i did read a summary. I know that the constitution is not about that. But try toexplain that to th efrench. that was their main reason to vote no!

silvia said:
And do you think that cos the UE helped lots spain in the past we have to say yes to everything, including such a capitalist document that is forgoting all the basic rights? :roll:
Click to expand...

It is not the best constitucion but Silvia keep in mind that 25 countries need to ratificate it. This is a small step towards more basic rights in every member country. Why do you say it is a capitalist document?
 
It's the best thing that could of happened for people in the UK because our government needed to see it.

The EU is worthwhile (as it is now) BUT we are all independant countries too. I don't think we should put that at risk!
 
wimpers said:
silvia said:
Wimpers, have you read the document?
The referendum was about the constitution, not about Poland or other things. And to be honest, that wouldn't hapen if they asked people about the EURO.
Click to expand...

No i haven't, but i did read a summary. I know that the constitution is not about that. But try toexplain that to th efrench. that was their main reason to vote no!

silvia said:
And do you think that cos the UE helped lots spain in the past we have to say yes to everything, including such a capitalist document that is forgoting all the basic rights? :roll:
Click to expand...

It is not the best constitucion but Silvia keep in mind that 25 countries need to ratificate it. This is a small step towards more basic rights in every member country. Why do you say it is a capitalist document?
Click to expand...


Wimpers I voted a big fat no, so don't try to convince me, I'm not ready for politic discussions in english ;)
 
It's good as a trade alliance but nothing else.

I cant think of a single system, other than Communism, where de-localised govt on such a grand scale is anything other than beareaucratic suicide.

And, to be honest, I think we subsidise other countries far too much.
 
Being ruled by a higher power in Europe, or by a power representing 25 seperate states frightens a lot of people, as it means potentially losing some of the liberty some of our countries have.

For instance, Turkey is a member of the EU, but it's laws and potential liberalism are hugely different from countries such as Holland and Britain. There is also the question of National Identity.

I would rather be a Briton than a "European", as we edge closer to being a united Europe, ruled by one Governing body from Brussels, but that's just personal choice, as has been the choice of many people in France and Holland.

By all means stand up for what you believe in, but you can't knock the power of the greater population.
 
i havent actually read the proposed constitution, but would anyone agree that its not the constitution itself that people are voting against but the European Parliament and setup itself?

ive never really been that keen on EU expansion but over the last year or so ive been thinking that we really do need a strong united Europe to provide some balance in the world against the US hegmony, and i think the constitution could be one way of moving towards this.

but as i said, i havent read it yet so im not sure of its finer points.
 
silvia said:
Marts said:
but as i said, i havent read it yet so im not sure of its finer points.
Click to expand...

As someone said in the TV today... it's clear the french and dutch did read the document
Click to expand...

On peoples motivation, from BBC Have Your say section.

"I voted 'no' on the constitution, because I don't want to increase the military capacity here"

Constitution doesn't mandate that.

"There are factual arguments against this constitution (liberalisation is for me the main argument against)"

The liberalisation argument is flawed (based upon a 50 year clause copied into the Constitution).

"to me it appears that a European Constitution is a preamble to the founding of a federal European state."

That would seem to be someone spooked.

" The European constitution is a threat to the independence of our liberal and democratic country. "

Somebody else spooked.

" The proposed constitution contains both positive (institutional) and negative (agricultural, anti-democratic) issues."

I'm not sure about this person negatives but he is the first person in about 20 that seems to analysed the constitution.

"It would be the perfect message to send to the high-paid, lazy Eurocrats working in Brussels that even the most pro-European countries are fed up with the way the EU is being run. "

Just a general protest vote (most seem to be expressing this opinion of protest against the EU of their own national government).

"There are many good things in the constitution, such as more power for the European parliament, a better voting system, and more collaboration of police forces, defence and foreign policy. As Dutchman I would vote for this but the referendum seems to be about the cup of coffee that doubled in price, the European bureaucracy money wastage, the avalanche of rules and regulations, the accession of large Muslim countries and the unwillingness of large countries to pay their due"

Same as above.

" I just came back from voting against the constitution. I feel many people will base their vote on their opinion of the Dutch government, which is very low. Still, I also think that many Dutch people have a clear idea about what this constitution entails, and in many ways it could be a product from the Dutch government alone in its over-the-top liberalism,"

Liberalism idea again.

" I am afraid that my vote today ("Nee" based on the contents of this constitution, e.g. militarization, lack of democracy) will be seen as a "Nee" to Europe."

Militarization again.

"The constitution is too complicated for the 'average citizen'. So now we have to vote based on the trust that what the politicians advise is good. This trust is a bit thin at the moment. "

I think this guy makes a good point.

I could go one but a very unscientific look at opinions seems to indicate that most people weren't voting on the reality of the constitution

8O :!: :?: :roll:
 
Hey people, calm down! Do you really think that passing a constitution in 25 different countries would be that easy? A referendum is the only way to legitimate this and it won't stop Europe from uniting.

The EU is now a reality as well as the euro and it's a good balance for the world (although I think that there's no balance against China). It's good that the French and the Dutch were heard, in some other countries only the Parlament had to approve the constitution, it's much worse. The French didn't say no to the constitution nor to Europe, they said no to the way the eurocrats are conducting the Unification of Europe and they were heard. The Prime Minister is no longer the same. Bingo!

You will have a single constitution sooner or later and you will be heard. Not everyone will be pleased, but that's how life is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top