Copenhagen
- Thread starter Morbyd
- Start date
nice posters - but ultimately this conference is a waste of time
1. nothing is legally binding
2. countries in the developing world are more interested in growth than in green targets - President Lula in Brazil is sitting on massive oil reserves in the atlantic, he has massive poverty in the favelas, and a middle class which likes its cars or he can be lectured to by the West on how to behave... go figure...
3. the automotive industry is on its knees and desperate for sales - it will lobby hard against higher taxes...
4. rather like the arms race during the cold war - nobody will cut their stocks until someone else does ie 'who blinks first' - everyone will point fingers and expect someone else to take a lead
5. who is going to determine emission targets? the UN? greenpeace? Obama? Sweden? East Anglia University?
6. who is going to enforce them? (see 5)
7. Congress has a frightening number of climate sceptics
8. it may already be too late
9. people may already have given up (see 8 )
10. who is going to pay for it all....
1. nothing is legally binding
2. countries in the developing world are more interested in growth than in green targets - President Lula in Brazil is sitting on massive oil reserves in the atlantic, he has massive poverty in the favelas, and a middle class which likes its cars or he can be lectured to by the West on how to behave... go figure...
3. the automotive industry is on its knees and desperate for sales - it will lobby hard against higher taxes...
4. rather like the arms race during the cold war - nobody will cut their stocks until someone else does ie 'who blinks first' - everyone will point fingers and expect someone else to take a lead
5. who is going to determine emission targets? the UN? greenpeace? Obama? Sweden? East Anglia University?
6. who is going to enforce them? (see 5)
7. Congress has a frightening number of climate sceptics
8. it may already be too late
9. people may already have given up (see 8 )
10. who is going to pay for it all....
Interesting comments - nice one. I think a bit of healthy optimism wouldn't go a miss though. What else is there after all?
Like the posters too.
Agree about countries in the developing world being more interested in forming the next Empire than learning from mistakes.
It's still worth doing though surely? If the intent is true enough then change can happen.
However, I also think that people use modern politics and 'that stuff that happens on the telly over there' to absolve themselves of any personal responsibility. Our individual apathy, ambivalence and willingness to give away are power to governments is possibly the scariest bit of all.
sorry, am extremely pessimistic...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text
+ on C4 News this week there was an interesting report from China which produces wind turbines for export - but the manufacture of the turbines itself involves ecological destruction in Mongolia
so how do you reduce your dependence on imports yet keep the economy cheap AND green??
I just don't see HOW you square the circle.... something has to give
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text
+ on C4 News this week there was an interesting report from China which produces wind turbines for export - but the manufacture of the turbines itself involves ecological destruction in Mongolia
so how do you reduce your dependence on imports yet keep the economy cheap AND green??
I just don't see HOW you square the circle.... something has to give
West London Shadow
Active Member
another waste of time:
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/actonco2/home/campaigns/drive-5-miles-less-a-week.html
http://actonco2.direct.gov.uk/actonco2/home/campaigns/drive-5-miles-less-a-week.html
Morbyd
Moderator
How is boosting the living standards of your populous akin to 'forming the next Empire'?
How is boosting the living standards of your populous akin to 'forming the next Empire'?
given that it was the 'western' powers who spent the best part of half a millenium getting rich off those developing nations.
oh the irony.
Buckley
Well-Known Member
If the science is right, it's already too late. Party on.
russellventilla
Member
If the science is truthfull you mean.
Buckley
Well-Known Member
Pure science is incontrevertible. But who knows where data released to the masses stands.
russellventilla
Member
I'm finding this climate change skeptics (not you my friend - the ones on telly) kinda yawnsome tbh.
It's common sense that belching out carbon monoxide, burning up fossil fuels, doing nothing to curb our habits and giving birth to millions more dysfunctional consumerist humans who will repeat the cycle is destructive behaviour.
What is useful about this cynical climate hoax view exactly and what are they saying to help people understand their connection with the planet?
Buckley
Well-Known Member
which is a fancy way of putting what i said anyway...
And, would you believe it, I'm available to hire! Want your basic statements fancied up? You know where to come!
Basic facts are that if the science publicised is correct, there is no way the world is going to take the action required to counter it. So enjoy, love, laugh, don't regret because time is short.
d florish
yup.
and long after we've died out the earth will again, renew itself and florish with the next dominant species.
Im putting my money on giant frogs.
its not the end of the world stuff, just end of the human race stuff.
Buckley
Well-Known Member
It's likely that timescales are being exaggerated. It's the sensible thing to do. Does anyone really believe that if a few decades were enough to bring about a global change in behaviour, it would be an achieveable goal? That we can save a planet in twenty, thirty or fifty years?
Aaah but humans have a different responsibility to most species. Our intelligence comes at a price.
We have the ability to self reflect and therefore have this thing called a 'separate existence' - we actually believe we are not part of a collective whereas most animals (inc giant frogs) live in harmony with the planet and according the elements.
Believing this illusion means we use our intelligence to manipulate the elements for self gain and mastery when we could be honouring them and living by them.
This struggle can't be overcome through endless bleatings in Copenhagen or committing sums of money/hiring a PR guy to promote the issue.
It's all about getting over our self important egos...and that's the essence of why we're here.
It's all very spiritual.
Morbyd
Moderator
George Carlin. Damn... beat me to it.