soha
Well-Known Member
That's the ava one tho isn't it? Big crowd going over from Ireland/N.Ireland
Cocoon @ PACHA discussion
- Thread starter stivi
- Start date
stivi
Well-Known Member
it's been a while since I last posted on this thread, so here's how I see the whole thing.
to start off - it's undeniable cocoon hasn't been as busy as imagined/expected/hoped this summer.
before we get into the details, and that's also something you'll have read before somewhere in the forums, the vast majority of club nights are doing smaller numbers this year - simply because the island isn't as busy this season and/or because there's a change in clientele. also, if I'm trying to see a pattern, I think it's more the traditional nights (promoters that have been around for a while) that are suffering a bit and only a few of the new nights are growing and establishing themselves. not a new phenomenon exactly, tastes change, trends change, the clientele changes. I understand the focus on cocoon's evolution in pacha, since cocoon is a party that's discussed a lot on here and by now one of the longest running nights on the island, but lots of very well-known parties such as circoloco, music on, together, even paradise and many more are also doing smaller numbers than before. it's truly a tough season in which only a few promoters are able to stay on their level of numbers or grow.
now in cocoon's case, it's also undeniable that sadly a few things didn't work out the way people (including me I have to admit) expected:
one, with three quarters of the season done, I think I can be honest and say looking back, the move to wednesday night hasn't worked. for various reasons. first and foremost, the trend of doing ibiza for a long weekend only (mainly because of crazy prices as much discussed on here) instead of the traditional full week, which has started a few years ago, has accentuated A LOT this summer. ask anyone on the island, from hoteliers to bar/restaurant/club staff and promoters, it's a clearly visible pattern. a lot of people do thu-sun, fri-mon or tue. the change to weds also had a not unimportant impact in the way that cocoon ibiza was sven's start to the weekend tour and not the end as it used to be when it was on mondays. the consequence of that was that there were fewer afterhours - when cocoon was on a monday, if they did afters on a tuesday, sven could then recover all wednesday and thursday before flying out again to go touring thu/fri-sun and back to ibz for monday. with cocoon being on weds night this year, it was nearly impossible for him to do afters because the whole weekend was still ahead of him (and he's just not getting any younger). some of you might think this is bogus, but the afters are still an important thing for cocoon and often it's knowing that there will be afters resulting in bringing more people to the club. I didn't expect it, but I have to admit that now I think if they'd left cocoon on a monday, they'd gotten better results. read on for that.
two, and this one is a bitter pill to swallow, the locals - which are a big factor for a night like cocoon, just didn't accept the venue move as expected. see, no one at cocoon thought that everyone that came to amnesia monday after monday would be seen wednesday after wednesday at pacha. it was clear that it would be difficult to convince everyone. but it's simply true that far less locals have been coming to cocoon this summer than before and than expected. why? again various reasons: there are people who are just not appreciating the move to pacha. it's quite brutal, I have friends who came to cocoon religiously every week and haven't given cocoon one chance this summer. personally I think it's rather sad and disappointing, seeing what cocoon has done for them (and all of us) in all these years and now there's no support (yet you can be absolutely sure they will pop up at the closing afters...). but yeah, it's a fact - the local people have voted with their feet. second, also the change from mon to wed has had an impact as well for the locals. believe it or not, a lot of the cocoon regulars simply keep going out monday nights. circoloco...and then, but only if ricardo is playing, pyramid. (I'll talk about pyramid in a bit). traditionally monday night is techno night out and it's hard to change that habit. in short, everyone knew not the whole local cocoon crowd would follow, but the result has simply been below the expectations.
another point to be considered is the fact amnesia did put on pyramid and sort of copied the night they lost. it's something that doesn't happen too often here (no copy of afterlife around, none of cream neither), but I understand why amnesia did it. them getting villalobos for 6 dates was obviously a tough knock for cocoon. let's face it, even though RV isn't everyone's cuppa tea, he was one of the faces that brought people to cocoon. him on the terrace and you've got all the locals there. and if we look at pyramid's result so far, if we exclude coxy's one night stand (which actually was not a 'presented by pyramid' date) and the diynamic takeover they had, mondays at amnesia haven't been great numbers wise neither. of course it was also hard for them (going up against circoloco, tough summer generally), but the only dates that kinda work are the ones with...you guessed it, ricardo. pyramid has had nights with less than 1k people in the venue (!) and the good ones (again excluding carl and solomun date) have reached around 2k people - which is what the bad performing cocoon dates used to result in. so the split hasn't helped anyone - both sides have lost.
now for anyone thinking this is the end for cocoon, no way jose. it's not as dramatic as you'd think. it's true cocoon hasn't been packing out pacha, but the dancefloor is always perfectly busy, musically there have been some fantastic nights (loved mano le tough this weds just past) and people on the dancefloor are having a brilliant time. pacha's soundsystem is amazing and I think that next year the club will be a tad less white again - it's one of the things that got apparent a few weeks in, they overdid it with the white colour during the refurb. the vip hasn't worked very well for cocoon, but that is something I have to say I was very sceptical about right from the start.
as for sven's popularity, personally I don't think it's dwindling massively. as others have said, he's still packing out clubs and festival stages worldwide. of course he's not flavour of the day anymore in the sense that he's probably not getting a lot of new young followers, simply because the kids currently either hear urban/reggaeton or tech house...richie hawtin isn't getting any new fans neither and I think marco carola starts to get in the same category, but sven (as the others) still has its base. the reasons why less people came to see him in ibiza this year are explained above. also I do believe a certain percentage of people that would go see him simply didn't come to the island at all this year - much discussed again, people above 30/40 who've had enough of the pisstake price level and vip bullshit (wake up, this season has shown us it's not working). @Nobbie Q the moment you mentioned with koze - it's the only time this year he's gone and played back to back. I've said this many times before, he's not made for it and simply shouldn't try anymore at all. personally, my only criticism is that musically, this year I've experienced a far less varied sven than in past seasons. of course there's a reason for it, I think with the exception of the solomun and richie cocoon dates, sven's always played the 3-end slot. and musically it was a bit of a mix between the styles he would play in the club room in amnesia (banging techno) and the terrace (housier, trippier). track-wise really good, but sadly very little changes week in week out if you went to cocoon as much as I did. I also only heard him play one proper after and this is where I heard stuff I haven't heard elsewhere all summer. I can promise you, the closing afters will be a musical highlight of the entire ibiza season...
next year is cocoon's 20th year on the island and I believe it might turn into something rather special. 2019 gossip thread to be started after the closings my friends...
to start off - it's undeniable cocoon hasn't been as busy as imagined/expected/hoped this summer.
before we get into the details, and that's also something you'll have read before somewhere in the forums, the vast majority of club nights are doing smaller numbers this year - simply because the island isn't as busy this season and/or because there's a change in clientele. also, if I'm trying to see a pattern, I think it's more the traditional nights (promoters that have been around for a while) that are suffering a bit and only a few of the new nights are growing and establishing themselves. not a new phenomenon exactly, tastes change, trends change, the clientele changes. I understand the focus on cocoon's evolution in pacha, since cocoon is a party that's discussed a lot on here and by now one of the longest running nights on the island, but lots of very well-known parties such as circoloco, music on, together, even paradise and many more are also doing smaller numbers than before. it's truly a tough season in which only a few promoters are able to stay on their level of numbers or grow.
now in cocoon's case, it's also undeniable that sadly a few things didn't work out the way people (including me I have to admit) expected:
one, with three quarters of the season done, I think I can be honest and say looking back, the move to wednesday night hasn't worked. for various reasons. first and foremost, the trend of doing ibiza for a long weekend only (mainly because of crazy prices as much discussed on here) instead of the traditional full week, which has started a few years ago, has accentuated A LOT this summer. ask anyone on the island, from hoteliers to bar/restaurant/club staff and promoters, it's a clearly visible pattern. a lot of people do thu-sun, fri-mon or tue. the change to weds also had a not unimportant impact in the way that cocoon ibiza was sven's start to the weekend tour and not the end as it used to be when it was on mondays. the consequence of that was that there were fewer afterhours - when cocoon was on a monday, if they did afters on a tuesday, sven could then recover all wednesday and thursday before flying out again to go touring thu/fri-sun and back to ibz for monday. with cocoon being on weds night this year, it was nearly impossible for him to do afters because the whole weekend was still ahead of him (and he's just not getting any younger). some of you might think this is bogus, but the afters are still an important thing for cocoon and often it's knowing that there will be afters resulting in bringing more people to the club. I didn't expect it, but I have to admit that now I think if they'd left cocoon on a monday, they'd gotten better results. read on for that.
two, and this one is a bitter pill to swallow, the locals - which are a big factor for a night like cocoon, just didn't accept the venue move as expected. see, no one at cocoon thought that everyone that came to amnesia monday after monday would be seen wednesday after wednesday at pacha. it was clear that it would be difficult to convince everyone. but it's simply true that far less locals have been coming to cocoon this summer than before and than expected. why? again various reasons: there are people who are just not appreciating the move to pacha. it's quite brutal, I have friends who came to cocoon religiously every week and haven't given cocoon one chance this summer. personally I think it's rather sad and disappointing, seeing what cocoon has done for them (and all of us) in all these years and now there's no support (yet you can be absolutely sure they will pop up at the closing afters...). but yeah, it's a fact - the local people have voted with their feet. second, also the change from mon to wed has had an impact as well for the locals. believe it or not, a lot of the cocoon regulars simply keep going out monday nights. circoloco...and then, but only if ricardo is playing, pyramid. (I'll talk about pyramid in a bit). traditionally monday night is techno night out and it's hard to change that habit. in short, everyone knew not the whole local cocoon crowd would follow, but the result has simply been below the expectations.
another point to be considered is the fact amnesia did put on pyramid and sort of copied the night they lost. it's something that doesn't happen too often here (no copy of afterlife around, none of cream neither), but I understand why amnesia did it. them getting villalobos for 6 dates was obviously a tough knock for cocoon. let's face it, even though RV isn't everyone's cuppa tea, he was one of the faces that brought people to cocoon. him on the terrace and you've got all the locals there. and if we look at pyramid's result so far, if we exclude coxy's one night stand (which actually was not a 'presented by pyramid' date) and the diynamic takeover they had, mondays at amnesia haven't been great numbers wise neither. of course it was also hard for them (going up against circoloco, tough summer generally), but the only dates that kinda work are the ones with...you guessed it, ricardo. pyramid has had nights with less than 1k people in the venue (!) and the good ones (again excluding carl and solomun date) have reached around 2k people - which is what the bad performing cocoon dates used to result in. so the split hasn't helped anyone - both sides have lost.
now for anyone thinking this is the end for cocoon, no way jose. it's not as dramatic as you'd think. it's true cocoon hasn't been packing out pacha, but the dancefloor is always perfectly busy, musically there have been some fantastic nights (loved mano le tough this weds just past) and people on the dancefloor are having a brilliant time. pacha's soundsystem is amazing and I think that next year the club will be a tad less white again - it's one of the things that got apparent a few weeks in, they overdid it with the white colour during the refurb. the vip hasn't worked very well for cocoon, but that is something I have to say I was very sceptical about right from the start.
as for sven's popularity, personally I don't think it's dwindling massively. as others have said, he's still packing out clubs and festival stages worldwide. of course he's not flavour of the day anymore in the sense that he's probably not getting a lot of new young followers, simply because the kids currently either hear urban/reggaeton or tech house...richie hawtin isn't getting any new fans neither and I think marco carola starts to get in the same category, but sven (as the others) still has its base. the reasons why less people came to see him in ibiza this year are explained above. also I do believe a certain percentage of people that would go see him simply didn't come to the island at all this year - much discussed again, people above 30/40 who've had enough of the pisstake price level and vip bullshit (wake up, this season has shown us it's not working). @Nobbie Q the moment you mentioned with koze - it's the only time this year he's gone and played back to back. I've said this many times before, he's not made for it and simply shouldn't try anymore at all. personally, my only criticism is that musically, this year I've experienced a far less varied sven than in past seasons. of course there's a reason for it, I think with the exception of the solomun and richie cocoon dates, sven's always played the 3-end slot. and musically it was a bit of a mix between the styles he would play in the club room in amnesia (banging techno) and the terrace (housier, trippier). track-wise really good, but sadly very little changes week in week out if you went to cocoon as much as I did. I also only heard him play one proper after and this is where I heard stuff I haven't heard elsewhere all summer. I can promise you, the closing afters will be a musical highlight of the entire ibiza season...
next year is cocoon's 20th year on the island and I believe it might turn into something rather special. 2019 gossip thread to be started after the closings my friends...
stivi
Well-Known Member
Oh no, I've just booked a quick 4 day visit for the Cocoon closing as I wasn't able to go when I was there last month, I love Papa Sven and it's sad to hear that Cocoon is struggling. I hope I'm not going to be the only one on the dance floor
ha no, the closing will be very busy. the opening was packed.
Phew! If only I'd known about afters when I booked the return flight, otherwise I'd have stayed on or are the "invite only" type things?
stivi
Well-Known Member
the best venue for cocoon in ibiza was and will always be amnesia. I simply understood the decision to move away. and I did think it would work out better than it has. I truly believed it would work. and I'll say it again, had it stayed on a monday and had it been a 'normal' season, the result would be massively different. of that I am convinced by now.
stivi
Well-Known Member
closing afters are always open for everyone.
LP_IBIZA
Well-Known Member
Great post @stivi - you've put my mind more at rest!
I think the clientele change on the island and change of day was an issue that everyone would be in agreement with, but I was disappointed with this paragraph above and I couldn't agree more with the point in bold. I know Pacha might have had a reputation in the past for being "VIP... commercial etc" and might not have been everyone's cup of tea; but surely even the Solomun+1 parties have shown what is possible in that venue on the right night.
It's a little bit like the end of Space issue for me and people not being able to let go of the past. Face the facts! It's not Amnesia and it's not as raw as the old Cocoon parties used to be - but the Cocoon parties at Pacha are undeniably a "Cocoon party". The crowd is still great and far and away the best on the island. The atmosphere is still superb. The soundsystem is far beyond what Amnesia ever had to offer and really does blow you away. I just can't understand why anyone would be that particular about a venue that they wouldn't support Sven and Cocoon but I suppose that's just my personal opinion.
I've said this numerous times on this thread - but the two visits I've had this season were two of the best Cocoon's ever. I wouldn't say it was better or worse than Amnesia. It's just different!
Naive Melody
Active Member
How much is entry on the door for Cocoon these days? Will be landing late on Wednesday and will want to decide on the night what to do. Or, if we decided to go would it be best to buy a ticket in town?
stivi
Well-Known Member
https://www.ibiza-spotlight.com/night/promoters/cocoon-pacha
31-41€ currently, depending on the date.
Naive Melody
Active Member
Cheers Stivi...if we go it will be a last minute, late decision to go so can't buy tickets online in advance. If it's the same price on the door then great.
Ah OK - just seen your latest message. Cheers.
soha
Well-Known Member
This is why I read spotlight forumsit's been a while since I last posted on this thread, so here's how I see the whole thing.
to start off - it's undeniable cocoon hasn't been as busy as imagined/expected/hoped this summer.
before we get into the details, and that's also something you'll have read before somewhere in the forums, the vast majority of club nights are doing smaller numbers this year - simply because the island isn't as busy this season and/or because there's a change in clientele. also, if I'm trying to see a pattern, I think it's more the traditional nights (promoters that have been around for a while) that are suffering a bit and only a few of the new nights are growing and establishing themselves. not a new phenomenon exactly, tastes change, trends change, the clientele changes. I understand the focus on cocoon's evolution in pacha, since cocoon is a party that's discussed a lot on here and by now one of the longest running nights on the island, but lots of very well-known parties such as circoloco, music on, together, even paradise and many more are also doing smaller numbers than before. it's truly a tough season in which only a few promoters are able to stay on their level of numbers or grow.
now in cocoon's case, it's also undeniable that sadly a few things didn't work out the way people (including me I have to admit) expected:
one, with three quarters of the season done, I think I can be honest and say looking back, the move to wednesday night hasn't worked. for various reasons. first and foremost, the trend of doing ibiza for a long weekend only (mainly because of crazy prices as much discussed on here) instead of the traditional full week, which has started a few years ago, has accentuated A LOT this summer. ask anyone on the island, from hoteliers to bar/restaurant/club staff and promoters, it's a clearly visible pattern. a lot of people do thu-sun, fri-mon or tue. the change to weds also had a not unimportant impact in the way that cocoon ibiza was sven's start to the weekend tour and not the end as it used to be when it was on mondays. the consequence of that was that there were fewer afterhours - when cocoon was on a monday, if they did afters on a tuesday, sven could then recover all wednesday and thursday before flying out again to go touring thu/fri-sun and back to ibz for monday. with cocoon being on weds night this year, it was nearly impossible for him to do afters because the whole weekend was still ahead of him (and he's just not getting any younger). some of you might think this is bogus, but the afters are still an important thing for cocoon and often it's knowing that there will be afters resulting in bringing more people to the club. I didn't expect it, but I have to admit that now I think if they'd left cocoon on a monday, they'd gotten better results. read on for that.
two, and this one is a bitter pill to swallow, the locals - which are a big factor for a night like cocoon, just didn't accept the venue move as expected. see, no one at cocoon thought that everyone that came to amnesia monday after monday would be seen wednesday after wednesday at pacha. it was clear that it would be difficult to convince everyone. but it's simply true that far less locals have been coming to cocoon this summer than before and than expected. why? again various reasons: there are people who are just not appreciating the move to pacha. it's quite brutal, I have friends who came to cocoon religiously every week and haven't given cocoon one chance this summer. personally I think it's rather sad and disappointing, seeing what cocoon has done for them (and all of us) in all these years and now there's no support (yet you can be absolutely sure they will pop up at the closing afters...). but yeah, it's a fact - the local people have voted with their feet. second, also the change from mon to wed has had an impact as well for the locals. believe it or not, a lot of the cocoon regulars simply keep going out monday nights. circoloco...and then, but only if ricardo is playing, pyramid. (I'll talk about pyramid in a bit). traditionally monday night is techno night out and it's hard to change that habit. in short, everyone knew not the whole local cocoon crowd would follow, but the result has simply been below the expectations.
another point to be considered is the fact amnesia did put on pyramid and sort of copied the night they lost. it's something that doesn't happen too often here (no copy of afterlife around, none of cream neither), but I understand why amnesia did it. them getting villalobos for 6 dates was obviously a tough knock for cocoon. let's face it, even though RV isn't everyone's cuppa tea, he was one of the faces that brought people to cocoon. him on the terrace and you've got all the locals there. and if we look at pyramid's result so far, if we exclude coxy's one night stand (which actually was not a 'presented by pyramid' date) and the diynamic takeover they had, mondays at amnesia haven't been great numbers wise neither. of course it was also hard for them (going up against circoloco, tough summer generally), but the only dates that kinda work are the ones with...you guessed it, ricardo. pyramid has had nights with less than 1k people in the venue (!) and the good ones (again excluding carl and solomun date) have reached around 2k people - which is what the bad performing cocoon dates used to result in. so the split hasn't helped anyone - both sides have lost.
now for anyone thinking this is the end for cocoon, no way jose. it's not as dramatic as you'd think. it's true cocoon hasn't been packing out pacha, but the dancefloor is always perfectly busy, musically there have been some fantastic nights (loved mano le tough this weds just past) and people on the dancefloor are having a brilliant time. pacha's soundsystem is amazing and I think that next year the club will be a tad less white again - it's one of the things that got apparent a few weeks in, they overdid it with the white colour during the refurb. the vip hasn't worked very well for cocoon, but that is something I have to say I was very sceptical about right from the start.
as for sven's popularity, personally I don't think it's dwindling massively. as others have said, he's still packing out clubs and festival stages worldwide. of course he's not flavour of the day anymore in the sense that he's probably not getting a lot of new young followers, simply because the kids currently either hear urban/reggaeton or tech house...richie hawtin isn't getting any new fans neither and I think marco carola starts to get in the same category, but sven (as the others) still has its base. the reasons why less people came to see him in ibiza this year are explained above. also I do believe a certain percentage of people that would go see him simply didn't come to the island at all this year - much discussed again, people above 30/40 who've had enough of the pisstake price level and vip bullshit (wake up, this season has shown us it's not working). @Nobbie Q the moment you mentioned with koze - it's the only time this year he's gone and played back to back. I've said this many times before, he's not made for it and simply shouldn't try anymore at all. personally, my only criticism is that musically, this year I've experienced a far less varied sven than in past seasons. of course there's a reason for it, I think with the exception of the solomun and richie cocoon dates, sven's always played the 3-end slot. and musically it was a bit of a mix between the styles he would play in the club room in amnesia (banging techno) and the terrace (housier, trippier). track-wise really good, but sadly very little changes week in week out if you went to cocoon as much as I did. I also only heard him play one proper after and this is where I heard stuff I haven't heard elsewhere all summer. I can promise you, the closing afters will be a musical highlight of the entire ibiza season...
next year is cocoon's 20th year on the island and I believe it might turn into something rather special. 2019 gossip thread to be started after the closings my friends...
Regarding Cocoon and forum members, I really don't think anybody should be put off. And I say that genuinely.
Even on the quieter nights, the middle of the dancefloor has been electric. Truly the best crowd you will find in an Ibiza superclub in 2018.
As @perrylgooner and @Nobbie Q will attest I'm sure, if you love Cocoon, although the thin numbers are frustrating, they do not detract from the experience.
Mr. Inconsistent Ricky V is having his most consistent run of good form on the island he's ever known. I don't know how busy it will be. But I think it could be worth checking out. Nina will surely draw a crowd. Ilario, Matador and Hawtin will be good and then the closing will be fantastic.
Even on the quieter nights, the middle of the dancefloor has been electric. Truly the best crowd you will find in an Ibiza superclub in 2018.
As @perrylgooner and @Nobbie Q will attest I'm sure, if you love Cocoon, although the thin numbers are frustrating, they do not detract from the experience.
Mr. Inconsistent Ricky V is having his most consistent run of good form on the island he's ever known. I don't know how busy it will be. But I think it could be worth checking out. Nina will surely draw a crowd. Ilario, Matador and Hawtin will be good and then the closing will be fantastic.