You thought the British banks were bust?

xxVic-zeexx said:
Does it effect us in anyway ?!
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We, Britain, export more to Ireland than we do to India, Brazil, China and Russia combined, so as you say, in a nut shell, yes.

Imports from Ireland are worth nearly £17billion to the UK, therefore if they go tits up then it effects the UK in a big way.
 
This has been going on for a while. It's a right mess. The management in Irish banks is a joke.

One of my colleagues in the London office bought some Irish bank bonds last year after the government initially guaranteed them (later withdrawn when they realized how fooked the banks are). Those bonds are basically toilet paper now!
 
Fa fox sake... dere's more ta Oyland dan dis you shower o' contz ...

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The bank collapse will have ripple effects for years. Watch out EU Portugal and Spain. The British will help bail out Ireland because they owe so much money and are a big trade partner.
 
Ireland and Greece will default on their national debt as both are basically bankrupt. Frightening that Ireland did not take the write downs on the mortgages at the same time, just shows - again - that human nature is to deny the inevitable if it leads to bad news!

Oh well, lots of sexy bar staff with nice voices for didsbury o'neils. All is not lost.
 
Morbyd said:
This has been going on for a while. It's a right mess. The management in Irish banks is a joke.

One of my colleagues in the London office bought some Irish bank bonds last year after the government initially guaranteed them (later withdrawn when they realized how fooked the banks are). Those bonds are basically toilet paper now!
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As an Irishman living in Ireland and as the election manager of an anti banker canditate in the last Irish General Election, I have it up to my tonsils in this mess.

Firstly, the reason Ireland is in such a mess is because on the 20/9/09, the state i.e the taxpayer, guaranteed these bank bonds which were essentially private gambling debts of playboy investors. These bonds still retain their value and are far from worthless.

This is the problem that we the citizens of Ireland have with these bonds. We want to burn them and let the investors take the loss......not the taxpayer. Our previous government disgracefully bankrupt Ireland (and signed away our sovereignty) by guaranteeing these bonds.

The majority of these bonds and bank debt, which is estimated at over 130 BILLION (will know for certain 2morrow) was lent to Ireland by German, French and English banks not to mention the pension funds of countless Europeans.

It is in their Interest not to allow Irish Banks to go under as they loose all the money the recklessly lent to private investors here. Thus bringing down the Euro.

It is not in the interests of the people of Ireland to continue to pay for these losses. It is estimated that it will take 3 generations to pay it off. Already before my daughter starts her first day in school, she owes the European Banks 80, 000.

Fundamentaly the crisis is a classic example of privatizing the Profit and socializing the Loss.

Facts of the matter;

Ireland is fuc*ed for now;

We will Default

We may leave the euro and join the £

Revolution is in the air:twisted:
 
ED CASE said:
Its a ****ing Banana Republic
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That too. As a people we are corrupt, feckless and subservient to authority. We complain and blame others without taking responsibility for our actions.

At the moment we are an embarrassment. We are doing everything to enhance the stereotypical view of the "Paddy" and we deserve it, as we voted these ignorant, parochial gombeen men into office. There was more corruption in this country than the whole series of the Sopranos.

Change and political reform cant come quick enough, but we will dither and dother, doffing our cap to Europe and begging for the kindness of strangers.

Makes me vomit. [rant over, sorry Europe]
 
I had a big long response to you, Bez, but it got lost when the chord popped out of my laptop and it decided to shut down :evil:

Basically, in short, the government guaranteed the bonds to keep capital in the banks (not the worst idea) but then forgot to fire all the idiot bank managers that got them into this mess (and kept hiding how big their losses were going to be!). Primary bonds might still have value but subordinates are gone.

Seeing what happened in Iceland, I understand not wanting the gov't and people to have to bear the cost of repaying bondholders. It is unfair. But the flip side is then you should probably just let the banks fail... but no one wants to do that either.
 
Morbyd said:
Basically, in short, the government guaranteed the bonds to keep capital in the banks (not the worst idea) but then forgot to fire all the idiot bank managers that got them into this mess (and kept hiding how big their losses were going to be!). Primary bonds might still have value but subordinates are gone
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3 or 4 people guaranteed the Bonds, not the Government, they knew nothing about it until it was a fait accompli and a gun was put to their heads saying that if you dont agree the system that we know will crash in the morning. It was done in secret behind closed doors.

The people that were responsible for this decision all had close personal links with the Bankers who threatened to expose these corrupt politicians if they didnt agree to the guarantee. One bank in particular the worst offender was supplying huge unsecured 24 hour loans to friends of government. It was basically a casino not a bank. This guy bought Nigearian oil wells FFS:spank:

Plus many of the politicians who knew of the problems in our banks all had vested interests in keeping them afloat as many had huge portfolios of property and financial assets. Europes involvement in this stinks as well.

We have not said the subordinates are gone. They will be offered a deal but they are not gone.

What should have happened was a guarantee of all future bonds not past.
 
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Can't argue with that last line.

And you're right - the deal hasn't been offered yet so I've jumped the gun (actually, I think numbers have been floated for one of the bigger banks, but not the others). It's a political hot potato no matter who's in government.

Your description of the politics of it explains why the thieving bastards weren't fired when their banks started flopping!
 
agentundercover said:
Bez, what would you have had happened?

Let one or more of the banks fail? Genuine question.
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Its easy for me to say this in hindsight, but yes I would have let Anglo Irish Bank fail but supported the others and guaranteed their deposits. Similar to the Leymans in the US

But as we have seen 90% of the deposits fled the country straight away, they did not stay in our banks as people had no confidence in them.
 
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