Opening up the illegal downloading argument again...

S

Stu Hirst

Active Member
A year ago, places like Soulseek were rife with dance music as many labels just hadn't got their arse in gear in terms of legal digital downloads, but 2005 has seen a VAST improvement.

I'm in two minds about illegal downloading. First off, let me say that I have and do do it. Hardly ever for dance music, only for other styles of music and I can HAND ON HEART say that anything I have liked, I have went out and bought, as I like physically having the product in my collection. Dance music wise, the quailty of sites like djdownload.com and beatport over the last 6 months has been amazing, so many good tracks of all genres, meaning i'm picking up more tunes than ever, and lots of very upfront material.

On the other hand, once a dance record has gone past the point of shifting copies (eg well past its promo and release dates, eg 8-12 months), I wouldn't, as a producer, be overly concerned about tracks being up on Soulseek - as the people downloading wouldn't have bought it anyway, and your music is still reaching people it wouldn't have before.

This argument has been brought up before and I think there's some substance in it; there's a sizeable majority of people who only download music that they wouldn't have normally bought - so this is only actually CREATING interest in the artist. However with the increase in CD-only dj's, there must still be people out there with track collections purely made up of illegally downloaded music.

I know there are a few from the industry on this board - would be interesting to hear your views, and also from the other side, e.g. the punter.
 
I still spend a LOT of money on vinyl.. but a high proportion of my new music is now from legal download sites like xpress beats, djdownload and trax2burn..

I, like Stu, do download stuff for free as well - but usually just obscure tunes from my youth that I would never buy..

My basic rule is if it's mainstream (and I'm talking top 40) I feel fine downloading it, if it's more niche (and I include just about all dancemusic in this latter section), then I buy it.. I never made the conscious decision, but that's pretty much how I behave..
 
Part of the problem with DJ's using illegally downloaded music is because the majority of labels have a crap turnaround from initial signing to final release. Often a promo gets ripped during an initial mail out and its months before the track gets released. I'm sure there are some people that download with the intention of buying the 12 when its released. 6 months down the line when they are fed up of playing it, the track gets released. I doubt they'll be running down the record shop on the morning of its release. I believe a quicker turnaround or a hold back on mailout until the track is nearing release would be a much better strategy.
 
Happy to say none of the DJs I know play out illegal music... then again, most of them are producers themsleves so understand how such things can hurt the little guy..
 
Botton line, my desire to listen to new music is stronger than my moral principles.

I dl 100's of new tunes every day, and I love it. House music would simply have one less fan if I didn't. I could never afford to be in a similar position if I had to pay for it, and so much stuff I get I don't listen to more than once (at all in some cases!).

I don't profit from it, don't play out with it (yet), but even if I did, I doubt I'd lose any sleep about it.

Why dl from traxsource, when I can get it (and 10000 x more) on soulseek?

I'd simply rather spend the money on myself. Simple as.

I'd like to mention that I disagree with all the hypocrisy of the old promo system, and how I like the way Soulseek opens up upfront House Music to an audience which wouldn;t normally be able to get it. It's removed a LOT of soppy eliteism about the promo scene which is all a good thing, aside from the 'top' dj's, who, co-incedently are most vocal against it.
 
x-amount said:
Botton line, my desire to listen to new music is stronger than my moral principles.

I dl 100's of new tunes every day, and I love it. House music would simply have one less fan if I didn't. I could never afford to be in a similar position if I had to pay for it, and so much stuff I get I don't listen to more than once (at all in some cases!).

I don't profit from it, don't play out with it (yet), but even if I did, I doubt I'd lose any sleep about it.

Why dl from traxsource, when I can get it (and 10000 x more) on soulseek?

I'd simply rather spend the money on myself. Simple as.

I'd like to mention that I disagree with all the hypocrisy of the old promo system, and how I like the way Soulseek opens up upfront House Music to an audience which wouldn;t normally be able to get it. It's removed a LOT of soppy eliteism about the promo scene which is all a good thing, aside from the 'top' dj's, who, co-incedently are most vocal against it.
Click to expand...

I understand most of what you're saying - but what about music that you love? Say you download an album and you think it's absolutely fantastic, would you then go out and buy that album?
Because otherwise, if everybody had your approach, there would be no money in the pot to pay any of these people, develop new artists, scout for up and coming talent yada yada.

I guess though we've been through this kind of thing before, with recording onto tape in the 80's etc.
 
OK, I used to download over a year ago. But, as I've DJed for over 28 years I have a pretty decent record collection that I spent a fortune on prior to that. I don't download at all now apart from paid for downloads from Napster, iTunes, Traxto burn, etc. The PRS have been active in my hometown checking up so it's not worth taking the risk.

In the last year alone my 12" vinyls of mainly house music stands chest high! All played only once when they were recorded to my laptop for DJing. I usually buy the chart crap on CD. My laptop contains over 3,000 tunes and I have bought every one of them and still have them either on vinyl, CD or in a Napster or iTunes folder.

In fact while on here with my desktop I'm recording onto my laptop old vinyl from the 70's...... just recorded;

Celi Bee & The Buzzy Bunch - One Love
The Isley Brothers - Climbing Up The Ladder, Voyage To Atlantis, Livin' In The Life, Go For Your Guns
Kongas - Gimme Some Loving
Gap Mangione - Time Of The Season
Herbie Hancock - Doin' It
Five Special - Why Leave Us Alone
Quantup Jump - The Lone Ranger (sample used for Kenny Everit Show)
The Olympic Runners - Keep It Up
Norma Jean - Saturday (the original that was sampled for 100% - Just Can't Wait)

You can't find most of these to download. Anyway must go and finish processing these 'cause I'll be using some of them tonight.
 
I rarely download just tracks. Most of my downloading is sets, ie: Kiss mixes, EMs, live mixes, etc. I also try and get promo comps/CDs before they are released. If I rank the mix 4 or 5 out of 5 stars then more than likely I will buy it. The sad thing is I immediately rip it to MP3 so I can download it to my Ipod. I never use the CD again. I'm a big advocate of downloading high bit-rate CDs. It's hard to find those though, especially in EDM. I much rather pay for a CD download then worry about getting a physical CD in the mail and having to rip it, transfer it, etc.

~Jason
 
If there's an album i want then I'll buy it.

If there's a track i hear and i want it then i'll search soulseek/winmx/limewire and usually get bored with it before i buy it.

i download sets on p2p occassionally.

and i either record/search for essential mixes.

like someone else said i don't profit from it

so sue me! :lol:
 
Illegal downloading is bad ... it is stealing. First of all you can download most tunes for 1€ on iTunes. But for all you cheap b*stards that think that 1 € is to much. There are sites http://www.dance-inudtries.com fe that deliver free mp3's Owke you can not find tiesto or other but if you want free legal music, you have a choice. Biggest problem is the cisac. Artist should have all the rights on their stuff and decide what happens with theur stuff.
 
I think the danger of it all is the hypocrisy.
The people who do nothing but download huge amounts of music and never pay for the product and have the "f*ck 'em" attitude, are the very same people who would kick up a stink if the quality of music deteriorated rapidly because no-one was making any money to move things forward.

If I went into work every day and my boss said "we can't pay you", because the work I was doing was being stolen, i'd soon think twice about changing jobs - and the company would collapse as it wouldn't be able to cover costs.

I guess it's about striking a balance between what is reasonable and what isn't.
 
Stu Hirst said:
I think the danger of it all is the hypocrisy.
The people who do nothing but download huge amounts of music and never pay for the product and have the "f*ck 'em" attitude, are the very same people who would kick up a stink if the quality of music deteriorated rapidly because no-one was making any money to move things forward.

If I went into work every day and my boss said "we can't pay you", because the work I was doing was being stolen, i'd soon think twice about changing jobs - and the company would collapse as it wouldn't be able to cover costs.

I guess it's about striking a balance between what is reasonable and what isn't.
Click to expand...

Well stated.
 
If I hear a track I like I'll buy it, and if I really like it I'll search for different mixes of it. I've bought the track once, so as far as I'm concerned my conscience is clear. If they put a decent mix on an album or didn't stuff an album so full of tracks each mix is only 2-3 mins long I wouldn't feel the need to download a different mix of it.
 
Just to underline what I said earlier, yesterday I spent £106 on vinyl! 8O
...............and only got 17 tracks for that too as quite a few of them were imports.

So, what did I buy?

19th Avenue - Give Yourself
Belezamusica - U Got Me Spinning (Seamus Haji Remix)
Deep House Souldiers - In My Bag (Original Mix)
Deep Influence - Pachanga
Exacta ft LXC - Flippin' (Club Mix)
Fatboy Slim - Wonderful Night (Club Mix)
Jupiter Ace pres J A Teknixx - Until The Music Stops
Kimara Lovelace - Misery (DJ Spen Remix)
Michael Gray pres Hi Fashion ft Maria Lawson - Whatcha Gonna Do
Mr Hermano - Free As The Morning Sun (Seamus Haji Remix)
Nicola Di Venere - Bass Frequencies (Club Mix)
Roman Flugel - Geht's Noch (Dominik Eulberg Rmx)
Seamus Haji - Echoes Of love
Solid Groove - This Is Sick
Splash - Night By Night
Unknown - We Got a Love
Zoo Brazil ft Emma - Tonight (Steve Mac Mix)

............took all afternoon to record and process them for use from my laptop. Only got to play 3 or 4 of them last night :( Just the way it went with the crowd, aah well, one day I might get a decent residency. :roll:
 
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