Dance Music: Where are things at?

The Sun God

Active Member
Here's another excellent article by Shawn Reynaldo which might be of interest to some on here, exploring what defines commercial, underground (and the blurry bits in-between) in 2022. He makes a lot of good points about how the sands are shifting, certainly in terms of how we understand club culture today (light years from what I and many others grew up with).

 
There seems to be this endless production line now of what I guess you could call 'house pop'. Landfill 4/4 with whimsical filler vocals and reworded familiar lyrics which all sounds like it was knocked together in 5 minutes by some bored Belgian kid on a laptop. All the bars and chiringuitos (the non-Latin ones) seem to love this stuff. I envy people who can just zone out, whereas it does my head in.
 
There seems to be this endless production line now of what I guess you could call 'house pop'. Landfill 4/4 with whimsical filler vocals and reworded familiar lyrics which all sounds like it was knocked together in 5 minutes by some bored Belgian kid on a laptop. All the bars and chiringuitos (the non-Latin ones) seem to love this stuff. I envy people who can just zone out, whereas it does my head in.
Is that the general sound walking past bars? I’m going to have to do my best not to be the grumpy old bloke or I’ll be back n trouble with my other half. Will have to practice my zoning out skills.
 

Beyoncé and Drake Aren't Reviving Anything​

a.k.a. House music isn't in need of saving, and major labels aren't interested in that anyways.​

Shawn Reynaldo
Jun 28
10

Over the weekend, I finished a book called Sellout: The Major-Label Feeding Frenzy That Swept Punk, Emo, and Hardcore (1994–2007). Released last year and written by Dan Ozzi, it spotlights 11 different bands—the likes of Green Day, Blink 182, Jawbreaker, At the Drive-In, Thursday and My Chemical Romance among them—and specifically focuses on each of their major-label debuts. As someone who came of age during this time and spent a fair chunk of the late ’90s at various emo, indie and punk shows—for what it’s worth, I was also going to raves during those years—the book had a certain nostalgic appeal. However, it also provided an interesting look back at the post-Nirvana era, showcasing both the machinations of major labels in search of “the next big thing” and the internal politics of punk rock and independent music, which fractured in the face of giant checks and the sudden interest of the cultural mainstream.

What exactly does this have to do with electronic music? Possibly nothing, but in the wake of Drake’s new Honestly, Nevermind album and the new Beyoncé single “Break My Soul”—both of which borrow from house music—the cultural mainstream is once again rubbing up against a music culture and community that largely exists outside the Top 40 pop landscape. Dance music has been through this before of course—most notably during the “electronica” boom of the late ’90s and the EDM explosion that followed about a decade later—but where past surges often involved a bottom-up push in which new / relatively unknown / “underground” acts were being actively marketed to wider audiences, what’s happening now is a byproduct of literally the biggest artists in the world suddenly dabbling in the genre.

Given the world’s obsession with basically anything Drake and / or Beyoncé does, it’s no surprise that their new releases have prompted a notable uptick of interest in dance music, especially amongst those (critics included) who previously gave the genre little more than a passing thought. Unfortunately, much of the resulting “discourse” has had all the depth of a children’s wading pool, particularly amongst the more American corners of social media, where comparing the Drake and Beyoncé records to the music one hears in the dressing room of an H&M / Forever 21 / (insert chain store of your choice) apparently constitutes both high comedy and insightful analysis. The commentary provided by official music press often hasn’t been much better, and while I’m not inclined to compile all of the dreck here, the list that The Face slapped together of “The Best Pop-House Tracks to Get You Dancing This Summer” feels like a good example of the opportunistic, surface-level and (most importantly) click-friendly content that many outlets have churned out during the past two weeks.

In fairness, paper-thin Drake and Beyoncé articles have been a music media staple for more than a decade. The only difference is that now those articles are referencing dance music, a world that most pop, hip-hop and R&B writers aren’t particularly well versed in. As such, the past week has produced some occasionally cringe-worthy copy, including the following line from that above-referenced piece in The Face: “like it or not, house music is having a massive mainstream moment.” (The italics are theirs.)

That claim may or may not prove correct in the weeks and months ahead, but that hasn’t stopped the media from repeating it over and over in recent days. Here’s a sampling of headlines:
>>
 
>>

While it’s encouraging to see a few mainstream outlets loudly touting the Black roots of house music—a fact that many people are still unaware of, even in the US, despite the genre’s distinctly American origins—the larger narrative has little to do with setting the historical record straight. What’s emerging instead is a tale in which uber-famous pop artists are being cast as the saviors of house music, a genre that had, at least according to this story, apparently disappeared or died altogether. It’s not necessarily a purposeful mishandling of the facts—ignorance and star worship are much more likely root causes—but the narrative being spun remains woefully inaccurate all the same.

Dance music may not be a staple of the US pop charts, but it’s far from dead. On the contrary, it’s at the heart of a global, multibillion-dollar industry. (One caveat: in the face of inflation and various post-pandemic logistic struggle, dance music is grappling with several economic red flags at the moment, but much of that pain is currently being felt across the entire live music sector.) And while that industry includes several different styles of music—including EDM, which is likely more familiar to the average Drake and Beyoncé fan—house music remains one of its foundational pillars, and continues to be some of the most popular genres in the world, especially outside of the US. The idea that it was in need of “resurrection” is borderline ludicrous.

Both people working in dance music and dedicated fans already know this, and there’s been some minor pushback, mostly in the form of grousing on social media. At the same time, there’s also been a wave of optimism, with hopeful artists positing that perhaps the Beyoncé and Drake albums will lead to some sort of trickle-down effect, with pop fans eventually discovering “real” house music and major labels enlisting credible independent artists for high-profile production work and big-budget remix projects. It’s a nice thought, especially considering how difficult it is for the average house music producer to earn a living these days, but in reality, the chances of turning back the clock to 1995, when acts like Masters at Work were cranking out three major-label remixes a week and getting five-figure checks for each one, are slim.

Perhaps things could change, but at the moment, artists like Drake and Beyoncé aren’t reaching deep into the “underground” (an admittedly nebulous term) to produce their latest work. The only genuine house music artist on Honestly, Nevermind is Black Coffee, a South African producer who’s previously collaborated with Drake, and whose commercial bent has literally made him one of the biggest DJs in the world. On Beyoncé’s “Break My Soul,” her primary songwriting collaborators are Tricky Stewart and The-Dream—who are both incredibly talented, but neither one comes from house music—and while the track does sample the Robin S. classic “Show Me Love,” the repurposing of a ’90s anthem that’s been ubiquitous enough to power several generations of bar mitzvahs and drunken karaoke excursions can hardly be considered a subversive (or particularly innovative) act. I’m no Kanye West fan, but his song “Fade”—which sampled Mr. Fingers’ “Mystery of Love,” Hardrive’s “Deep Inside” and Barbara Tucker’s “I Get Lifted”—dove significantly deeper into the house music canon, and that came out back in 2015.

It’s nice to imagine that mainstream interest will somehow elevate the entire dance music sphere, but looking back at the history of major-label interaction with cultural subgenres, has that ever really happened? Even in the most successful cases (e.g. punk, grunge), the major labels haven’t invested broadly in music communities; they show up, scout for talent, throw money around, skim from the top and eventually move on once audience interest and / or the potential to make a profit dries up. Along the way, a handful of acts get big checks and maybe the chance to make a big-budget record they wouldn’t have been able to do otherwise, but the notion that it’s a net positive for the entire scene is highly debatable, or at the very least is something that can only be asserted with a boatload of caveats.

That’s especially true when so much of the current house music hype remains centered on global pop stars, as opposed to artists who come from an actual house music lineage. If this remains the dominant paradigm, whatever “opportunities” that come along for independent artists most likely won’t involve actually getting signed to a major label; if anything, they’ll look a lot more the recent remix albums from Dua Lipa and Lady Gaga. To their credit, those releases did enlist some credible artists; the former, 2020’s Club Future Nostalgia, was executive produced by the Blessed Madonna and featured reworks from Moodymann, Mr. Fingers, Paul Woolford, Jayda G, Masters at Work, Yaeji and a slew of other acts. Lady Gaga’s Dawn of Chromatica, which dropped last year, included remixes from Arca, LSDXOXO, Shygirl, Charli XCX and A.G. Cook, Doss, Jimmy Edgar and a number of other producers.

That’s a fairly impressive collection of dance music talent, and it’s good to know that these acts—some of which have been around for decades—presumably got both a decent payday and a bit of mainstream promotion. At the same time, it’s not an accurate snapshot of what’s popping in dance music’s most innovative and creatively interesting circles. Almost every artist involved is someone who was already a staple of the international club and festival circuit, and many of them were already plugged into the major-label system in some fashion. In terms of curation, these releases are only impressive in the sense that “these aren’t bad for major-label pop remix albums,” and that’s an exceedingly low bar to clear.

It’s also worth noting that outside of the discourse they’ve generated, none of these recent releases has had much of a lasting musical impact. Both Club Future Nostalgia and Dawn of Chromatica briefly topped the Billboard Top Dance/Electronic Albums chart, but they quickly faded into the ether, and now feel more like curios than collections of bona fide bangers. The response to Drake’s Honestly, Nevermind has been lukewarm (at best), especially amongst American audiences, and while the ultimate legacy of “Break My Soul” will likely hinge on how Beyoncé’s forthcoming Renaissance album is received when it drops next month, the cultural conversation to date has focused on lot more on the “reviving house music” angle and what Beyoncé is trying to say about the Great Resignation than the quality of the song itself. Simply put, the pop world may be attempting to sell house music to the masses right now, but it’s far from clear that the average music fan is actually interested in buying it.

At this point, it’s too soon to know whether this renewed mainstream interest in house music will develop into anything concrete. Given the speed at which culture moves nowadays, it could easily become a “remember when?” moment within a matter of months. But even if it does take off, and house music becomes the hottest new trend in pop music, it’s unlikely that will be will something to celebrate, and not because it violates some (largely antiquated) notions of “selling out” the culture.

This isn’t the ’90s, and the major labels aren’t looking to lure artists out of the basement with huge checks and promises of becoming a star. In truth, they’re not really looking to corrupt or transform anyone; they no longer have to. Animosity to mainstream pop is lower than it’s been in decades, and major labels by and large aren’t looking to sign niche independent artists anymore. They’d rather take notes from those artists’ creative toolkits and then pass that information along to their established properties (i.e. people like Drake, Beyoncé and all the other pop stars looking to following in their footsteps). In a very real way, the modern-day pop machine is a kind of pyramid scheme, and while getting artists at the bottom to participate might require spending a little money, or doling out the occasional songwriting / production credit, it’s ultimately an extractive enterprise.

In the eyes of major labels—and the wider cultural mainstream—house music is simply another resource to be mined in the service of contemporary pop stardom. “Reviving” the genre music is not on their to-do list, and supporting the wider house music / dance music ecosystem in any kind of sustainable, long-term fashion isn’t even part of the conversation. Independent artists, many of them starved for resources, income and attention, might go along for the ride anyways, but in most cases, neither they or their fans are likely to be happy with the end result.
 
Excellent article @Tourist. Is that website generally a good place for this type of discussion?

yeah worth signing up to his substack newsletters. Ted Gioia can be good sometimes too on the broader music industry in general. (both US perspectives). I always enjoy reading what Man Power in the UK has to say too. He should start one too. RedRackem on Twitter always has an opinion or two.

I started this thread in the first place hoping there would be more response really from across the board. The gossip thread is too restrictive for this, it's just musical chairs and terrible DJs I've never heard of whereas I'm more interested in which way the tides are shifting at the cutting edge.
 

Beyoncé and Drake Aren't Reviving Anything​

a.k.a. House music isn't in need of saving, and major labels aren't interested in that anyways.​

Shawn Reynaldo
Jun 28
10

Over the weekend, I finished a book called Sellout: The Major-Label Feeding Frenzy That Swept Punk, Emo, and Hardcore (1994–2007). Released last year and written by Dan Ozzi, it spotlights 11 different bands—the likes of Green Day, Blink 182, Jawbreaker, At the Drive-In, Thursday and My Chemical Romance among them—and specifically focuses on each of their major-label debuts. As someone who came of age during this time and spent a fair chunk of the late ’90s at various emo, indie and punk shows—for what it’s worth, I was also going to raves during those years—the book had a certain nostalgic appeal. However, it also provided an interesting look back at the post-Nirvana era, showcasing both the machinations of major labels in search of “the next big thing” and the internal politics of punk rock and independent music, which fractured in the face of giant checks and the sudden interest of the cultural mainstream.

What exactly does this have to do with electronic music? Possibly nothing, but in the wake of Drake’s new Honestly, Nevermind album and the new Beyoncé single “Break My Soul”—both of which borrow from house music—the cultural mainstream is once again rubbing up against a music culture and community that largely exists outside the Top 40 pop landscape. Dance music has been through this before of course—most notably during the “electronica” boom of the late ’90s and the EDM explosion that followed about a decade later—but where past surges often involved a bottom-up push in which new / relatively unknown / “underground” acts were being actively marketed to wider audiences, what’s happening now is a byproduct of literally the biggest artists in the world suddenly dabbling in the genre.

Given the world’s obsession with basically anything Drake and / or Beyoncé does, it’s no surprise that their new releases have prompted a notable uptick of interest in dance music, especially amongst those (critics included) who previously gave the genre little more than a passing thought. Unfortunately, much of the resulting “discourse” has had all the depth of a children’s wading pool, particularly amongst the more American corners of social media, where comparing the Drake and Beyoncé records to the music one hears in the dressing room of an H&M / Forever 21 / (insert chain store of your choice) apparently constitutes both high comedy and insightful analysis. The commentary provided by official music press often hasn’t been much better, and while I’m not inclined to compile all of the dreck here, the list that The Face slapped together of “The Best Pop-House Tracks to Get You Dancing This Summer” feels like a good example of the opportunistic, surface-level and (most importantly) click-friendly content that many outlets have churned out during the past two weeks.

In fairness, paper-thin Drake and Beyoncé articles have been a music media staple for more than a decade. The only difference is that now those articles are referencing dance music, a world that most pop, hip-hop and R&B writers pay the essay writer on https://essaypay.com/ aren’t particularly well versed in. As such, the past week has produced some occasionally cringe-worthy copy, including the following line from that above-referenced piece in The Face: “like it or not, house music is having a massive mainstream moment.” (The italics are theirs.)

That claim may or may not prove correct in the weeks and months ahead, but that hasn’t stopped the media from repeating it over and over in recent days. Here’s a sampling of headlines:
>>
Wow, this is information! You just did an amazing job very cool to read all this did not even think that people were so fond of music 😀
 
Wow, this is information! You just did an amazing job very cool to read all this did not even think that people were so fond of music 😀

thanks but I didn't write it myself! Shawn Reynaldo is the main man.

re: passion for music. Some of us still care, mad fools that we are. But then again there are people who have exactly the same nerdy obsession with football or cars or food or politics. What's the difference really?

FWIW I think the game is largely up for house music. It's just a lazy pastiche now. The next generation need to find something else altogether and maybe that is TikTok or pronouns or whatever it is that fires them up.
 
thanks but I didn't write it myself! Shawn Reynaldo is the main man.

re: passion for music. Some of us still care, mad fools that we are. But then again there are people who have exactly the same nerdy obsession with football or cars or food or politics. What's the difference really?

FWIW I think the game is largely up for house music. It's just a lazy pastiche now. The next generation need to find something else altogether and maybe that is TikTok or pronouns or whatever it is that fires them up.
this really is an interesting article.

firstly, I find it strange and actually cringe at how much attention dance music media has given this. Beyonce can release whatever music she wants the same way many artists change their sound and style and try new ideas.

"But even if it does take off, and house music becomes the hottest new trend in pop music"

honestly, dance, if not house, music has already been doing this for over 10 years. electronic music conquered pop music ages ago, which is why Calvin Harris and David Guetta got to be the highest earning musicians in the world.

the main point though about all this is that house music is one thing and anyone can be said to have some involvement in that through a track they've made or whatever. Dance music culture and house music culture is totally different.

it's like imagining saying boyzone revived punk cos they did a punk record. ha!
 
There's still lots of good electronic and dance music being made. The bad stuff is easy to ignore/avoid. I've heard that Beyonce track once (played by Mary Anne Hobbs, of all people). Didn't think it was that bad, though have no real desire to hear it again.

Surely that house pop sound is something that stretches back to the 90s?
 
this really is an interesting article.

firstly, I find it strange and actually cringe at how much attention dance music media has given this. Beyonce can release whatever music she wants the same way many artists change their sound and style and try new ideas.

"But even if it does take off, and house music becomes the hottest new trend in pop music"

honestly, dance, if not house, music has already been doing this for over 10 years. electronic music conquered pop music ages ago, which is why Calvin Harris and David Guetta got to be the highest earning musicians in the world.

the main point though about all this is that house music is one thing and anyone can be said to have some involvement in that through a track they've made or whatever. Dance music culture and house music culture is totally different.

it's like imagining saying boyzone revived punk cos they did a punk record. ha!

a lot of the more sensitive yanks who grafted in house for years get a bit miffed about the way the corporates suddenly piggyback on whenever there’s the sniff of a dollar but there’s nothing new there (see Trax Records in late 80s..). On + side i’ve seen a lot of older djs in Eng noticing the kids are getting into house again, asking ‘who’s lil louis’, ‘who’s harddrive’ etc which i think’s great.
 
On a sidenote, I'm surprised a lot of people -including music journalists- refer to Robin S when bringing up Beyonce's latest (s)hit. It's just a 90's synth preset, Korg M1 Organ 2 more specifically. A factory setting indeed

 
I think tech house brought in a slower sound when it got big, but the rise in the 'pop' style house is surely down to people wanting something to feel like they can party to again (regardless of how cheesy. I've just heard a new 'dance' remix of a northern soul classic that made my toes curl)

ANYWAY on a different yet similar note

it feels like tale of us, adriatique etc have been adding in more trancey sounds to their sets. Be interesting to see if there's a move back to the trance sound coming up in the next few years as EDM starts to fade out a bit more

If not, its maybe at least a return to 2000s prog sound?

Wishful thinking probably 😂
 
it feels like tale of us, adriatique etc have been adding in more trancey sounds to their sets. Be interesting to see if there's a move back to the trance sound coming up in the next few years as EDM starts to fade out a bit more

Definitely some truth in this. I know many of gone off some of the Tale Of Us sound, but I absolutely love some of those trance(ish) sounds they bringing into their sets. I don’t think we will end up with big room trance again, but elements definitely morphing back in.

I mean Solomun has Trance Wax as a +1 next week. I mean who knows where his sound will end up in a few years, so could be an interesting B2B.
 
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