Is it really this bad?
- Thread starter Robder
- Start date
Pablo Montez Junior
Active Member
Spoken like a true PR man. And that is part of the problem. There needs to be an HONEST debate about where things are going wrong and not ostrich heads in the sand pretending it's still 1999
neilly303
Active Member
Ibiza was always a dirty word for me in the 90's - all that cheesy trance and house music and the big superstar dj scene... Cringe. I hated 4/4 music back then.
When I finally got there in 2005 luckily the trance scene was starting to die a death and the minimal, tech house and techno were coming in. People's tastes were changing. I kept going back after that, but after 11 times I think I'm gonna call it a day soon.
You can still have amazing times in ibiza but most of the parties are pretty poor these days. It's more about the money now than it ever was.
When I finally got there in 2005 luckily the trance scene was starting to die a death and the minimal, tech house and techno were coming in. People's tastes were changing. I kept going back after that, but after 11 times I think I'm gonna call it a day soon.
You can still have amazing times in ibiza but most of the parties are pretty poor these days. It's more about the money now than it ever was.
Morbyd
Moderator
Ha ha. Spoken like a true pessimist!
Life changes. Life evolves. Nothing about sticking your head in the sand. All about accepting, adapting, and still finding your place in the world.
I spend my time in Ibiza doing and seeing the things I enjoy and paying little attention to everything else. Certainly a better way to enjoy your brief time on the island than whining about what might or might not have been at some random date in the past.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
^^ True. Speaking personally, I go to considerable lengths to have long spells without having to worry who my company is because there are so few people around in the places I choose to go, and those who are want to keep themselves to themselves also.
However, during the rest of my time there when company is sought out (be it fellow clubbers, diners or whatever), I really care who I spend time around and how they behave towards me and each other. I'm not one to turn a blind eye to certain behaviour and not care - one of the reasons I rarely travel much in August now.
When obnoxious people are everywhere pushing out grotty vibes and behaving like spoiled pr!cks all I can think of is wanting to be elsewhere. The island stands on its own feet without a soul in sight. However, when full of people they collectively make or break being there for me. It's that in the end which I think some people are driving at. If you live in a city you probably got desensitized to much of what I'm talking about. If you don't then you may well also be very sensitive to other people and their behaviour/attitute. And nothing about that's changed in me in the last 20 years. I felt the same in 1999 as I do now !
However, during the rest of my time there when company is sought out (be it fellow clubbers, diners or whatever), I really care who I spend time around and how they behave towards me and each other. I'm not one to turn a blind eye to certain behaviour and not care - one of the reasons I rarely travel much in August now.
When obnoxious people are everywhere pushing out grotty vibes and behaving like spoiled pr!cks all I can think of is wanting to be elsewhere. The island stands on its own feet without a soul in sight. However, when full of people they collectively make or break being there for me. It's that in the end which I think some people are driving at. If you live in a city you probably got desensitized to much of what I'm talking about. If you don't then you may well also be very sensitive to other people and their behaviour/attitute. And nothing about that's changed in me in the last 20 years. I felt the same in 1999 as I do now !
DelMarSunset
Active Member
I love how this debate always brings out the musical snobs and dullards who like nothing better than looking down their nose at other people having a good time in places they feel are beneath them and listening to music they can't stand.
There is a simple solution to this people.... don't go to those places! If Ocean Beach or Avicii at Ushuaia isn't your thing then stay away from them and let the ones who enjoy it get on with it while you go to the parties you like and congratulate yourself on how cool you are.
There is a simple solution to this people.... don't go to those places! If Ocean Beach or Avicii at Ushuaia isn't your thing then stay away from them and let the ones who enjoy it get on with it while you go to the parties you like and congratulate yourself on how cool you are.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
^^ I take it you're referring to mr_why's post on the previous page ??
It's the way people act that's the real issue and nowt to do with genuinely having fun whatever music is playing. Can't stand self-obsessed tosswits and people with no manners whether they happen to be at Ushuaia, Ocean Beach, Sankeys, Underground or anywhere else. Decent down-to-earth politeness and humility is what's so often lacking nowadays. Think I'm chronologically entitled to be a grumpy old git VERY soon
... but have been a grumpy young git when it comes to repulsive egos being strutted about for many a year. Used to hack me off in London around business stuff so much I worked very hard to be free of the need to go anywhere near it at all in person. Ever. Last thing I want is to be surrounded by it when I'm on holiday !!!
Everyone has the right to be hacked off with other people whose behaviour aggravates them. When those (aggravating) people start dominating a place or venue it's a huge turn-off for others. The point is that people DID used to behave much more openly towards each other and the notion of separation & division referred above is confirmation of loss of the very thing which made the soul of the island in years gone by. Just about everywhere. Now it's like faction -fighting amongst the visitors (and clubbers) sometimes. Alongside my cheque book is bigger than your cheque book and my table's better than yours. Yawn .... whether it's Paris Hilton or Loco Dice behind the decks this sort of thing is equally vomit-inducing !
It's the way people act that's the real issue and nowt to do with genuinely having fun whatever music is playing. Can't stand self-obsessed tosswits and people with no manners whether they happen to be at Ushuaia, Ocean Beach, Sankeys, Underground or anywhere else. Decent down-to-earth politeness and humility is what's so often lacking nowadays. Think I'm chronologically entitled to be a grumpy old git VERY soon
... but have been a grumpy young git when it comes to repulsive egos being strutted about for many a year. Used to hack me off in London around business stuff so much I worked very hard to be free of the need to go anywhere near it at all in person. Ever. Last thing I want is to be surrounded by it when I'm on holiday !!!Everyone has the right to be hacked off with other people whose behaviour aggravates them. When those (aggravating) people start dominating a place or venue it's a huge turn-off for others. The point is that people DID used to behave much more openly towards each other and the notion of separation & division referred above is confirmation of loss of the very thing which made the soul of the island in years gone by. Just about everywhere. Now it's like faction -fighting amongst the visitors (and clubbers) sometimes. Alongside my cheque book is bigger than your cheque book and my table's better than yours. Yawn .... whether it's Paris Hilton or Loco Dice behind the decks this sort of thing is equally vomit-inducing !
DelMarSunset
Active Member
I love how this debate always brings out the musical snobs and dullards who like nothing better than looking down their nose at other people having a good time in places they feel are beneath them and listening to music they can't stand.
There is a simple solution to this people.... don't go to those places! If Ocean Beach or Avicii at Ushuaia isn't your thing then stay away from them and let the ones who enjoy it get on with it while you go to the parties you like and congratulate yourself on how cool you are.
I agree that "progress" (money) has ruined some of the magic but if the island is to survive then it has to move and evolve and along the way some of the people who used to enjoy it won't anymore. It's really that simple. If Ushuaia or DC10 or Amnesia isn't your "thing" any more... If it's been taken over by a new generation of people (with money or not) if the music doesn't do it for you like it used to... If it's too busy, too messy, too popular.... Guess what? Tough shit!
It probably means that you're older, have less in common with the people that are discovering it and unless you embrace the change of the venue/clientele/music policy? then you don't belong there no matter how much you try to cling on to how it was five, ten or twenty years ago.
There is no place for rudeness btw I agree with that wholeheartedly but the bottom line is if you don't like certain parties, venues or style of music then it's really easy to avoid. Much better to just avoid somewhere you don't like rather than pompously bitch about it and therefore become as bad as the people you claim to be so superior to?
There is a simple solution to this people.... don't go to those places! If Ocean Beach or Avicii at Ushuaia isn't your thing then stay away from them and let the ones who enjoy it get on with it while you go to the parties you like and congratulate yourself on how cool you are.
^^ I take it you're referring to mr_why's post on the previous page ??
It's the way people act that's the real issue and nowt to do with genuinely having fun whatever music is playing. Can't stand self-obsessed tosswits and people with no manners whether they happen to be at Ushuaia, Ocean Beach, Sankeys, Underground or anywhere else. Decent down-to-earth politeness and humility is what's so often lacking nowadays. Think I'm chronologically entitled to be a grumpy old git VERY soon
Everyone has the right to be hacked off with other people whose behaviour aggravates them. When those (aggravating) people start dominating a place or venue it's a huge turn-off for others. The point is that people DID used to behave much more openly towards each other and the notion of separation & division referred above is confirmation of loss of the very thing which made the soul of the island in years gone by. Just about everywhere. Now it's like faction -fighting amongst the visitors (and clubbers) sometimes. Alongside my cheque book is bigger than your cheque book and my table's better than yours. Yawn .... whether it's Paris Hilton or Loco Dice behind the decks this sort of thing is equally vomit-inducing !
I agree that "progress" (money) has ruined some of the magic but if the island is to survive then it has to move and evolve and along the way some of the people who used to enjoy it won't anymore. It's really that simple. If Ushuaia or DC10 or Amnesia isn't your "thing" any more... If it's been taken over by a new generation of people (with money or not) if the music doesn't do it for you like it used to... If it's too busy, too messy, too popular.... Guess what? Tough shit!
It probably means that you're older, have less in common with the people that are discovering it and unless you embrace the change of the venue/clientele/music policy? then you don't belong there no matter how much you try to cling on to how it was five, ten or twenty years ago.
There is no place for rudeness btw I agree with that wholeheartedly but the bottom line is if you don't like certain parties, venues or style of music then it's really easy to avoid. Much better to just avoid somewhere you don't like rather than pompously bitch about it and therefore become as bad as the people you claim to be so superior to?
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Well, speaking personally (obviously) I think I'm pretty open-minded and had no problem at all fitting in to and thoroughly enjoying a decent outdoor island party in Zakynthos. Complete with a Cuff crew (promptly ducks) and a young clientele. The odd shuffles welcome. So there's no snobbishness or arbitrary looking down of noses on my part, it's all about what you see with your own eyes and experience for yourself.
I'd say that venue there beat Destino hands down for me atmosphere-wise and that's probably one of the best rated places in Ibiza now for daytime parties. I hate Ushuaia so goes without saying I preferred it to that too ! Also found a fantastic club open till way gone 9am with a brilliant (mainly Greek) crowd and great music which topped any of the smaller indoor venues in Ibiza, imho. What differentiated both from Ibiza clubs was an absence of discrimination, friendly and inclusive people, no VIP and 5-6Euro drinks (which is perfectly fair).
As to venues, you either like fancy venues or you don't. I spent all my formative years in and out of them from LA to Cap Ferrat, and it all just seems like much of a muchness to me. Dubai-esque glitz and glam. Which you can find all over the world nowadays. Nothing really special about it, then or now, and that's where it falls down - for me anyway.
So yes, I voted with my feet on my last trip away this year, and found absolutely cracking parties going on in the unlikliest of places. Hunting them out was fun too. If I'm honest, the island was also more spectacular - at less than half the price. Thought I'd go there and remind myself why I still go to Ibiza but found the opposite .. the sort of people and vibe I used to experience in Ibiza and now find crowded out there in July/August.
In the end, when people exploit a place, they look around and move on to somewhere new pretty soon. Because after they've played with the toy for a while they want somewhere new again. That's because, like pop music, it's quick to please and quick to bore. Just hope the Matutes "get rich quick" scheme has a short payback period in its investment calculations, or else that the curiosity train of people taking one-off trips to say they've "been and seen" keeps rolling to keep the entrance gates creaking. I've been happy going to Ibiza for 20 years, through all the changes, so for me it's hardly a "toy" I've personally grown tired of.
But having a genuine meaningful conversation with someone from the cast of 'Ex on the Beach' is about as likely as a green moon. So one might be forgiven for taking a look around and deciding it isn't worth the effort of trying too hard. If I do go back, I think I'll likely wind up in St Joan de Labritja sleeping out with the horses .
I'd say that venue there beat Destino hands down for me atmosphere-wise and that's probably one of the best rated places in Ibiza now for daytime parties. I hate Ushuaia so goes without saying I preferred it to that too ! Also found a fantastic club open till way gone 9am with a brilliant (mainly Greek) crowd and great music which topped any of the smaller indoor venues in Ibiza, imho. What differentiated both from Ibiza clubs was an absence of discrimination, friendly and inclusive people, no VIP and 5-6Euro drinks (which is perfectly fair).
As to venues, you either like fancy venues or you don't. I spent all my formative years in and out of them from LA to Cap Ferrat, and it all just seems like much of a muchness to me. Dubai-esque glitz and glam. Which you can find all over the world nowadays. Nothing really special about it, then or now, and that's where it falls down - for me anyway.
So yes, I voted with my feet on my last trip away this year, and found absolutely cracking parties going on in the unlikliest of places. Hunting them out was fun too. If I'm honest, the island was also more spectacular - at less than half the price. Thought I'd go there and remind myself why I still go to Ibiza but found the opposite .. the sort of people and vibe I used to experience in Ibiza and now find crowded out there in July/August.
In the end, when people exploit a place, they look around and move on to somewhere new pretty soon. Because after they've played with the toy for a while they want somewhere new again. That's because, like pop music, it's quick to please and quick to bore. Just hope the Matutes "get rich quick" scheme has a short payback period in its investment calculations, or else that the curiosity train of people taking one-off trips to say they've "been and seen" keeps rolling to keep the entrance gates creaking. I've been happy going to Ibiza for 20 years, through all the changes, so for me it's hardly a "toy" I've personally grown tired of.
But having a genuine meaningful conversation with someone from the cast of 'Ex on the Beach' is about as likely as a green moon. So one might be forgiven for taking a look around and deciding it isn't worth the effort of trying too hard. If I do go back, I think I'll likely wind up in St Joan de Labritja sleeping out with the horses
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Moondust
Active Member
There is a decent thread of debate going on here. I didn't see anybody claiming to be cool or looking down there noses, i certainly don't. A lot of people have invested a lot of money over the years in Ibiza on spotlight from what i see and read and much more importantly they have invested time ( years in fact ). That alone quantifies for allowance of an opinion rather than telling them its "tough shit". So referring to them as "musical snobs" and "dullards" contributes very little to what's being voiced here. I do see your point and yes its easy to avoid but its not easy to avoid being overran.. if you get me.
Moondust
Active Member
There is a decent thread of debate going on here. I didn't see anybody claiming to be cool or looking down there noses, i certainly don't. A lot of people have invested a lot of money over the years in Ibiza on spotlight from what i see and read and much more importantly they have invested time ( years in fact ). That alone quantifies for allowance of an opinion rather than telling them its "tough shit". So referring to them as "musical snobs" and "dullards" contributes very little to what's being voiced here. I do see your point and yes its easy to avoid but its not easy to avoid being overran.. if you get me.
Well, speaking personally (obviously) I think I'm pretty open-minded and had no problem at all fitting in to and thoroughly enjoying a decent outdoor island party in Zakynthos. Complete with a Cuff crew (promptly ducks) and a young clientele. The odd shuffles welcome. So there's no snobbishness or arbitrary looking down of noses on my part, it's all about what you see with your own eyes and experience for yourself.
I'd say that venue there beat Destino hands down for me atmosphere-wise and that's probably one of the best rated places in Ibiza now for daytime parties. I hate Ushuaia so goes without saying I preferred it to that too ! Also found a fantastic club open till way gone 9am with a brilliant (mainly Greek) crowd and great music which topped any of the smaller indoor venues in Ibiza, imho. What differentiated both from Ibiza clubs was an absence of discrimination, friendly and inclusive people, no VIP and 5-6Euro drinks (which is perfectly fair).
As to venues, you either like fancy venues or you don't. I spent all my formative years in and out of them from LA to Cap Ferrat, and it all just seems like much of a muchness to me. Dubai-esque glitz and glam. Which you can find all over the world nowadays. Nothing really special about it, then or now, and that's where it falls down - for me anyway.
So yes, I voted with my feet on my last trip away this year, and found absolutely cracking parties going on in the unlikliest of places. Hunting them out was fun too. If I'm honest, the island was also more spectacular - at less than half the price. Thought I'd go there and remind myself why I still go to Ibiza but found the opposite .. the sort of people and vibe I used to experience in Ibiza and now find crowded out there in July/August.
In the end, when people exploit a place, they look around and move on to somewhere new pretty soon. Because after they've played with the toy for a while they want somewhere new again. That's because, like pop music, it's quick to please and quick to bore. Just hope the Matutes "get rich quick" scheme has a short payback period in its investment calculations, or else that the curiosity train of people taking one-off trips to say they've "been and seen" keeps rolling to keep the entrance gates creaking. I've been happy going to Ibiza for 20 years, through all the changes, so for me it's hardly a "toy" I've personally grown tired of.
But having a genuine meaningful conversation with someone from the cast of 'Ex on the Beach' is about as likely as a green moon. So one might be forgiven for taking a look around and deciding it isn't worth the effort of trying too hard. If I do go back, I think I'll likely wind up in St Joan de Labritja sleeping out with the horses
Like your style amigo, i have the phone number of someone that may be able to help you with that!!!
Read the thread. Couple of bits of my own.
There are still illegal raves going on where I live in Dublin. Warehouses, venues, even forests. Music very much deep-tech house.
Only my 2nd year here but enjoyed it nowhere near as much as last year. Probably a few reasons for that but I may have to make my own thread on it.
Ushuaia. Now I love Ushuaia, as a venue. Looks fab. Put on good show. But god, the line-ups are awful and it aint cheap. Such a shame. And my mates wouldn't do the likes of ANTS because he's not a name. But we went to Hardwell. Crap music. None my friends enjoyed it either. But it was just because they knew the name. Commercial.
The demise of Eden sucked for me. Was a handy/cheap night out staying in San An, which I won't again. Toolroom knights was decent and Ministry of Sound had a decent line-up when I was there last year.
I think Space still offers great nights, but a lot of the big nights now seem very much either Techno or Edm orientated.
Thought there was a different vibe in San An this year too. Not as friendly. Last year I went July. Maybe there is a different crowd.
Cloudy weather was a bit of a downer for me. I enjoy the beautiful sunny westher as I don't get it back home.
I like House myself. All sorts. Didn't get to many nights though. Wanted to do Defected. Sam D, Noir & Finbassen (favourite artist last year). Wanted to go Solomun & Andhim. Toolroom had Purple Disco Machine & Claptone. Got to see none of these, but there is still nights. Sankeys will normally have something in there too.
I think you can still have a great time with some great people, you just might have to choose your nights, company and *extras* wisely.
There are still illegal raves going on where I live in Dublin. Warehouses, venues, even forests. Music very much deep-tech house.
Only my 2nd year here but enjoyed it nowhere near as much as last year. Probably a few reasons for that but I may have to make my own thread on it.
Ushuaia. Now I love Ushuaia, as a venue. Looks fab. Put on good show. But god, the line-ups are awful and it aint cheap. Such a shame. And my mates wouldn't do the likes of ANTS because he's not a name. But we went to Hardwell. Crap music. None my friends enjoyed it either. But it was just because they knew the name. Commercial.
The demise of Eden sucked for me. Was a handy/cheap night out staying in San An, which I won't again. Toolroom knights was decent and Ministry of Sound had a decent line-up when I was there last year.
I think Space still offers great nights, but a lot of the big nights now seem very much either Techno or Edm orientated.
Thought there was a different vibe in San An this year too. Not as friendly. Last year I went July. Maybe there is a different crowd.
Cloudy weather was a bit of a downer for me. I enjoy the beautiful sunny westher as I don't get it back home.
I like House myself. All sorts. Didn't get to many nights though. Wanted to do Defected. Sam D, Noir & Finbassen (favourite artist last year). Wanted to go Solomun & Andhim. Toolroom had Purple Disco Machine & Claptone. Got to see none of these, but there is still nights. Sankeys will normally have something in there too.
I think you can still have a great time with some great people, you just might have to choose your nights, company and *extras* wisely.
Pablo Montez Junior
Active Member
Here's my 10 point ban plan to save ibiza. (When the revolution comes or Podemos get into govt!)
1. Ban those billboards and divs making a racket spelling out club brands at salinas, when you're trying to chill with some fine danish girls on the beach
2. Ban those spastic baseball caps worn back to front by 18 year olds
3. Ban 18 year olds
4. Introduce new clubs which have no name, no brand and no elevated stages for muppets to gawp at; make all DJs invisible. Put them in a crows nest if necessary; ban sale of merchandise tat in any club. You're there to get wasted - leave the shopping till you're back in whatever shithole you spend the rest of the year in
5. Ban edm and Bring back HOUSE!!! You remember, the music that put that island on the map in the first place
6. Ban table service, vip areas, and americans (unless they're black and come from detroit or chitown)
7. Ban curfews, ban restricted opening hours
8. Ban celebrities, unless they're culturally relevant geniuses like zidane or grace jones
9. Ban 'artists' from riding genre bandwagons they have no roots in or understanding of (no names ahem Disclosure)
10. Ban naff tourists and above all ban dj dinosaurs who used to be famous before the internet existed
1. Ban those billboards and divs making a racket spelling out club brands at salinas, when you're trying to chill with some fine danish girls on the beach
2. Ban those spastic baseball caps worn back to front by 18 year olds
3. Ban 18 year olds
4. Introduce new clubs which have no name, no brand and no elevated stages for muppets to gawp at; make all DJs invisible. Put them in a crows nest if necessary; ban sale of merchandise tat in any club. You're there to get wasted - leave the shopping till you're back in whatever shithole you spend the rest of the year in
5. Ban edm and Bring back HOUSE!!! You remember, the music that put that island on the map in the first place
6. Ban table service, vip areas, and americans (unless they're black and come from detroit or chitown)
7. Ban curfews, ban restricted opening hours
8. Ban celebrities, unless they're culturally relevant geniuses like zidane or grace jones
9. Ban 'artists' from riding genre bandwagons they have no roots in or understanding of (no names ahem Disclosure)
10. Ban naff tourists and above all ban dj dinosaurs who used to be famous before the internet existed